Today’s guest is L.C. Barlow, a writer and professor working primarily in the field of speculative fiction. She has an MA in English from the University of Texas at Arlington and an MFA in Creative Writing from the University of Southern Maine's Stonecoast program. Her fiction has reached over sixty-five thousand readers and garnered praise, including a finalist for the Next Generation Indie Awards, a winner of the Indie Reader Discovery Awards, a winner of the eLit Awards, and IndieReader's Best Books of 2014. Barlow's horror trilogy - Pivot, Perish, and Peak - was picked up in 2018 by California Coldblood Books, an imprint of Rare Bird Books.

Are you a Planner or Pantser?

The short answer is that I started as a pantser, transitioned to more of a planner, and now am an amalgam of the two. 

The reason that I’m now an amalgam is that my process of writing changed dramatically over the course of producing my first book. Pivot was originally self-published, and when I wrote the novel, I didn’t really know anything about writing. I wrote the chapters alternating between past and present, with two plot lines that complemented one another. When I finally met up with several people who were willing to help me produce a more professional, publishable version of the novel, they helped me to significantly change, enhance, and build those different plotlines. When an agent took on the novel, he wanted me to separate the book into two books. At first, I declined, but as time went on, I realized that the book needed to be separated into two, that my agent was right, and I did so, taking the time to build the first one up and knowing the second one would be the second of the trilogy and that it needed to be built up like the first one. 

The thing, though, was that I had really kind of built that first book through trial-and-error (as pantsers do). I had written over 1,000 single-spaced pages to produce a 250-page single-spaced novel, and even though I had managed to make it work, I wasn’t exactly sure how.

At this time, I had started an MFA program because I had anticipated this problem. Nancy Holder—an amazing writer, woman, author, person in general—was my professor for two semesters and two residencies, and she told her classes about two books that she uses to help plot books: Blake Snyder’s Save the Cat! and Christopher Vogler’s The Writer’s Journey. I immediately purchased these books and read them. Subsequently, I compared Pivot to see how much its plot points lined up with the 15-point beat sheet in Save the Cat! As it turned out, 13 out of 15 points lined up. Thus, I was able to see how I had made the book work and move onward to the next novel. I used the same beat sheet to help finish the second of the trilogy, and I, like Nancy, will most likely use the two beat sheets from these books for every novel in the future (more of a “planner” way of doing things). Writing requires so much problem solving, and these books improve my ability to address those problems before seeking outside help. They help me produce things that I didn’t know I could produce, and I learn something new every time I read them.

Ultimately, though, after learning how to more effectively plot, I also learned that plotting isn’t everything. There’s just something about letting the novel develop organically that is so important. Really, if you sit down and say exactly what you wanted to say when writing, you’ve kind of failed. It’s only by writing something beyond what you knew to write that you have succeeded – when you write more than you thought you knew. So, when I do pre-emptively plot, I do so while taking it with a grain of salt, and often times the plot shifts dramatically three or four times as I go back and revise. Thus, I’m now an amalgam of a planner and pantser. 

How long does it typically take you to write a novel, start to finish?

In terms of a first, solid draft (which requires about three small revisions, most of the time), I could see getting it done in three months, maybe less. The third book of my trilogy I wrote in about three months during 2019. The other novels took much longer, but that was because there were so many revisions I needed to do before they were solid. I’ll also add that, since I have been writing in the same world for years, it’s possible that the third book of the trilogy flowed a little more smoothly for me than would a novel in an entirely different world (which, my fourth book is).

Do you work on one project at a time, or are you a multi tasker?

I have had to become a multi-tasker for the sake of survival. I was fortunate enough to sign a three-book deal with California Coldblood Books at the same time that I was completing my MFA at Stonecoast. I didn’t want my MFA thesis to be the third book of my trilogy, so I went with an entirely different project in an entirely different world. In my final semester at my MFA, I had to copyedit both the first and second novel of the trilogy with my publisher, while completing revisions on my thesis and also working on my final semester project, which included interviewing Andy Weir, Christopher Paolini, David Chilton, and Michael Sullivan, among others. All of this was on top of working full-time at a community college for the very first time. I’ll add that I was chosen as a graduation speaker, so I also needed to craft a speech for the end of the semester. I was incredibly stressed that fall, but it may have improved my ability to multi-task.

Did you have to overcome any fears that first time you sat down to write?

This question is an intriguing one, and my answer is yes and no. I was determined to write a book, hell or high water, and I worked on it every single moment I could. The work was obsessive and feverish, and one reason why was likely because it was something brand new that I had never done before. On top of that, though, I did have a fear of anyone finding out that I was writing a book and saying something to me that would discourage me (I had a difficult time separating my desires from others’ desires, so my solution at that time was simply not to put myself in the position to hear other people’s desires). I have heard a quote by J.K. Rowling before that goes something along the lines of, “The easiest way to kill an idea is to talk about it.” So, I didn’t talk about it almost at all. Ultimately, when people did find out, they did – predictably – say discouraging things to me, and I definitely had a moment where I had to pull myself up by my bootstraps and grow. I continued to pursue what I desired, despite what others said, and I ultimately landed an agent and book deal (years later). In terms of content itself, I wasn’t hesitant; however, I did not trust my reader to put himself or herself in my hands. In every chapter, I was terrified that what I was writing was boring, so I would throw everything-but-the-kitchen-sink in to spice things up. In the horror genre in particular, this becomes problematic, and my writing likely seemed frenetic and possibly psychotic, jumping from here to there. I remember reading in The Actor’s Art and Craft by William Esper that an actor who doesn’t trust himself to create a villain, or doesn’t trust the audience to believe in the character he creates, ultimately ends up twirling his mustache and laughing like “muahahahaha!” Writing without trusting the path you’re creating is very much the same thing. So, the two fears I had when starting out writing were 1. My reader would leave me if something fascinating wasn’t happening every single moment – kind of like climax after climax, and 2. That anyone who found out I was writing a book would say something disheartening to me and that that would ultimately stop me from pursuing writing.

How many trunked books (if any) did you have before you were agented? 

The first novel I wrote got an agent, but it was a long process. 

Have you ever quit on an ms, and how did you know it was time? 

I have not yet quit on a manuscript for a novel. The first three books I wrote were for my three-book deal. The fourth one, which is not in the same universe, I am still revising to submit to my agent.

Who is your agent and how did you get that "Yes!" out of them? 

So, the process by which I got an agent is a little long, but I will describe it here. 

I originally self-published my first novel without querying any agents because I had always been given the impression that getting published traditionally was impossible. When I self-published the novel, I received quite a bit of interest with, what turned out to be, over 65,000 downloads of the book (I made the book perma-free on Amazon and purchased two BookBub ads for it). In the midst of getting these downloads, I was reading people’s reviews, and quite a few of them complained about the cover. Thus, I scouted for book cover designers and settled on Bookfly Design. James T. Egan created a gorgeous cover for the self-published version of Pivot, and I do believe that is one of the things that greatly helped me receive so many downloads. One of the things that Kira Rubenthaler at Bookfly Design recommended to me was submitting my book to Indie book awards – which I did not know existed – and I did what she suggested. Ultimately, Pivot was a finalist for the Next Generation Indie Awards in eBook Fiction, a Winner of the Indie Reader Discovery Awards in Horror, and a Winner of the eLit Awards in Horror. Pivot made IndieReader's Best Books of 2014. Additionally, though, Pivot was one of the first self-published horror novels to be on the preliminary ballot for the Bram Stoker Awards. 

Pivot did not make the final ballot for the Stokers, so it was not technically a nominee, but I read up on the Horror Writers Association and became intrigued. I went to the World Horror Convention in Portland, Oregon in 2014, where I met a wide array of authors and, fortuitously, an entertainment lawyer who was interested in my book. He asked me to send him a copy, and I did so the next day. To my surprise, he read the book quickly and, though the book was admittedly a mess, brought an entertainment manager in to take a look at it. They told me that it needed a lot of work – which I well knew – and I let them know I would be willing to do the work. They gave me a few pointers (the pointers became more specific and plentiful, the better the book became), and I remember the entertainment lawyer telling me that publishing is a marathon, not a race, and I had to have stamina. Additionally, both he and the entertainment manager told me that every book tends to go through three revisions before an agent, three with an agent, and three with a publisher. They estimated I had four revisions before an agent ahead of me.

I got it done in two and a half revisions. I credit my work ethic to this.

After six months of working on it and having them read it, they ultimately concluded that it was ready to be sent off to agents, and they had several in mind. Over a year’s time, Pivot was sent to four agents, the last of which took it on. Pivot was rejected by the first agent it was sent to because it could not be marketed as literary fiction in addition to horror, which is important for mass marketing a horror novel. In other words, it was a little too paranormal/supernatural. That agent recommended it to an agent she knew, and the second agent read it in twenty-four hours (the first agent’s wait time was three months – this is the difference between a slush pile and being recommended by someone). The second agent liked the novel but said she primarily published dark fantasy and wanted to know if I had any other ideas lined up. I told her one idea for a dark fantasy novel, and she was interested in it, but I desperately wanted to get Pivot published, so I went ahead and continued looking for an agent to represent it. Pivot was passed by a third agent and was ultimately accepted by Jonathan Lyons at Curtis Brown, the fourth agent it was sent to. I owe him a deep debt of gratitude.

How long did you query before landing your agent?  /  How many queries did you send?  (whichever you're more comfortable answering)

I did not query. The entertainment lawyer and manager queried for me, and the process took almost exactly a year, since simultaneous submissions are generally not allowed (and not a good idea, anyway). The fourth agent who was queried took on Pivot.

Any advice to aspiring writers out there on conquering query hell?

So, my advice is to visit conventions, rather than query. Authors are generally really kind and fantastic people willing to lend a hand up the ladder to younger writers trying to break in (at least, this is true at Stoker Con). Go to the hotel’s bar in the evenings after the convention panels and such, and they will be there. Talk to everyone, be kind and genuine, and make friends. In addition, though, you can attend workshops and/or pitch sessions conducted at conventions to get to know other authors/editors/publishers. From what I remember, Anne Rice stated that she got her agent through a workshop at a writing convention. I myself also was able to get an agent through several wonderful individuals I was fortunate enough to meet at a writing convention.

How did that feel, the first time you saw your book for sale? 

Truthfully, I think the feeling was a mixture of relief, catharsis, and elation. The entire process from first draft to publication was six years (I have read that the average time from first draft to bookshelf is five years). Many times, I had to mentally let the book go in order to continue living my life (thinking about it too much would drive me insane). Each time I stopped myself from thinking about it, it felt very much like handing control over to fate, and I never knew if the book would make its way back to me. So many minute things have to go right in the process of developing a book, and there’s no guarantee that they will. It’s tough. All I could do was my part. When the book was finally published, I could breathe again. 

I’ll add that getting published also felt like the first time that the thing I created recognized me. I have no idea if this makes sense.

How much input do you have on cover art?

Fortunately, with my publisher, I had a lot of input on the cover art. My publisher loved the original cover of the self-published version of Pivot and wanted to do something sort of similar/sort of new. Thus, we went with Bookfly Design again for the cover, and James once again did an amazing job. James also created the cover for Perish and Peak.

The guidance that I gave to Bookfly Design was that I wanted a cover with a kind of amorphous/abstract image that got to the heart of the novel. They delivered exactly what I was looking for, taking various symbols for infinity and everlasting life and blending them with tiny spatters of blood and/or sharp knife-like edges.

What's something you learned from the process that surprised you?

1. The professionals I worked with were never rude or mean to me. In fact, I would say that I heard more disparaging things from people not at all in the publishing business than I did from those actually in the publishing business. I think this is partially because publishers/editors/lawyers/managers/agents know not to be disparaging (they know the correct way to talk to authors/writers/artists), but I think it’s also because they themselves have a creative spirit, in addition to a business-mindedness. They are as excited about the project as you. They rejoice with you. They lend an ear in a way that no one else will. It took me a while to realize that I was safe thinking out loud with them.

2. One of the things the entertainment manager taught me that struck home was that you can only enter a room for the first time once. That’s why it’s important that you get your work to as optimum of a level as possible before submitting it to an agent or editor. Because once they “enter the room” (read your work) for the first time, they can’t see it nearly as objectively after. Your own objectiveness is compromised because you’ve been with the work for so long. That’s why you need workshoppers you can trust (and who know how to get you to emphasize things and back off things without being cruel or mean). Get your work as good as you can before it goes up the ladder.

3. I learned that I’m far more willing than the average person to try something new with my work. I remember in my MFA program that my professor said a lot of authors in the program who were advised to split their books into two or three parts refused to do so (and later, ultimately, admitted that they probably should have done so). My philosophy is that I’ll always have the draft I’ve written (it’s in the bank), so I’m up for trying the same story in a different way (willing to majorly revise). I actually really enjoy it, in a way, as it often feels like puzzle pieces clicking into place when my semi-rocky story is fixed by the advice given to me by my agent/manager/lawyer. 

4. The more “gritty” things I added to my novel, the more cemented it became. I had actually expected the opposite to be true. What I mean by this is that, in every story, there are “crunchy” and “floaty” items, also known as literal and figurative. The crunchy is the bare facts that ground the story. The floaty is the unnatural, metaphorical things. When I had just started writing, I would throw in figurative things to feel better or redeem my story. The reality, though, was that I didn’t need to do this. I didn’t need to “redeem” the story by avoiding grit and leaning towards “floaty” things. The more, in fact, I added trying to “redeem” the story, the more work I made for myself when revising. I needed to trust the reader to follow me. 

5. The amount of time that needs to go into advertising for the book (as well as writing the next book while advertising) far exceeded my expectations. Being a writer is a lifestyle, not a part-time or full-time job. 

6. Copyediting was actually quite a magical process. Through alteration of sentences alone (no changes in plot), Sue Ducharme and I reduced my first book down from about 104,000 words to around 74,000 words. That resulted from simply ensuring the use of strong verbs, changing passive sentences to active, and removing the “I” filter. The book read so much better, after. My subsequent novels haven’t needed quite as much manicuring, as my writing has improved since my first novel, but I still find the tightening process of copyediting to be amazing. I remember that Stephen King in On Writing said most novels could be reduced by a third. This was basically true of that first novel, with no alterations to plot.

7. The more I write, the more homophone errors I make.

How much of your own marketing do you do?  Do you have a blog / site / Twitter?

I do so much marketing, and I will insert the links to all of my social media sites below.

In terms of marketing, in my experience, the four items that promoted sales the most were: 1.) BookBub ads, 2.) Contacting all public libraries (yes, you read that right) in 31 states with a press release of the book and sometimes an ARC (advanced reader copy) 3.) a WRR ad (a classical station in Dallas) on the radio, and 4.) Having a well-known audiobook reader voice my audiobook (Emma Galvin, who voiced Winter’s Bone and the Divergent series).

In addition to the above, I have advertised on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube with a fantastic book trailer for Pivot made by Book Candy studios. I estimate that this book trailer has been viewed over 100,000 times combined on all sites. From what I could tell, it did very little to move sales. Then again, I understand how essential it is to have a combined effort of many things working together, so perhaps it isn’t that it did nothing, but that it never provided a noticeable “bump.”

When do you build your platform? After an agent? Or should you be working before?

I suggest building a platform long before you seek an agent. I suspect that it was the fact that Pivot received over 65,000 downloads that originally caught the attention of an entertainment lawyer, entertainment manager, and agent. I’m not sure I would have gained as much attention without that. 

Do you think social media helps build your readership? 

As said above, advertising on social media I think has helped me the least. In my experience, the four items that promoted sales the most were: 1.) BookBub ads, 2.) Contacting all public libraries in 31 states with a press release of the book and sometimes an ARC (advanced reader copy) 3.) a WRR ad (a classical station in Dallas) on the radio, and 4.) Having a well-known audiobook reader voice my audiobook (Emma Galvin, who voiced Winter’s Bone and the Divergent series).

I do, however, know of an author who posted a screenshot on Facebook of the amount of money he had spent on Facebook ads for his book/s over the past decade or so. It was $80,000 total. He said that every penny had been worth it, in terms of sales. That has not been my experience. Social media ads seemed to have gained me the least number of bumps in sales. I suspect, though, that results vary highly by book and genre.

I’ll also add that I have done a lot of GoodReads giveaways, and these were essential to getting enough reviews on Amazon to get BookBub ads. Beyond this, though, it is difficult to say how much these giveaways have affected sales.