Holly McGhee: A Literary Agent On the Other Side of the Submission Process

If there's one thing that many aspiring writers have few clues about, it's the submission process. There are good reasons for that; authors aren't exactly encouraged to talk in detail about our own submission experiences, and - just like agent hunting - everyone's story is different. I managed to cobble together a few non-specific questions that some debut authors have agreed to answer (bless them). And so I bring you the submission interview series - Submission Hell - It's True. Yes, it's the SHIT.

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Today's guest is Holly McGhee, author of MATYLDA BRIGHT & TENDER. What makes this interview particularly interesting to me is that Holly happens to be an agent as well as an author. And not just any agent. Holly is the President and Creative Director of Pippin Properties, so she knew the ins and outs of the industry already. But what was it like being on the other side of the desk?

How much did you know about the submission process before you were out on subs yourself? 

As a literary agent by trade I knew quite a lot about it, but being the author is completely different. First you have to revise and revise and revise until your agent thinks there’s a decent chance of placing the story . . . and then the book goes out . . . and you have no idea who’s reading it when, if ever . . . and if they are loving / hating it / figuring out how to pass on it without hurting your feelings . . . you feel so exposed, naked really—all these people reading something that you put everything you had into, something so personal, something that you hope resonates . . . these editors are forming an opinion, deciding your fate at that publishing house. It’s the most uncomfortable situation in the world!

Did anything about the process surprise you? 

I was surprised by how difficult it was to try to forget that the manuscript was on submission; I was haunted 24 /7 wondering if somebody would like the story. I felt lucky sometimes that I had a full-time job and three children and a husband and a dog and a leopard gecko to distract myself. But the only time I truly got respite was when I was sleeping or watching The Voice (and that was only on two nights a week . . .)

Did you research the editors you knew had your ms? Do you recommend doing that? 

We tried our best to submit to people I don’t do much business with as an agent / to try to keep it simple that way. So I wouldn’t be calling the editor one day as an author and the next as an author’s advocate . . . We did tons of research on what each editor had acquired and then we read as much as we could about the way they work. I wanted to be sure to work with someone who had enough time to help me make the story as strong as it could be / who was ready to roll up their sleeves with me.

What was the average amount of time it took to hear back from editors? 

There is no average. We had our first great response in two days (!) but that spoiled us because the entire process took two months . . . I knew enough to try not to get excited till we had a firm offer but it was hard . . . I know how easily everything can fall apart and that a deal’s not a deal till you have the contract . . . wine helped . . . as did working on a new project while waiting. Doing planks helped too—I did them every single night. I thought even if the whole thing implodes I’d have a tight core.

What do you think is the best way for an author out on submission to deal with the anxiety? 

If you can compartmentalize that’s undoubtedly the way to go. I can’t—but I think assuring yourself that it’s going to be over at some point and then committing that no matter what the verdict, you will keep on writing is essential. Surrounding yourself with people who’ve been through it helps a lot; also focusing on anything positive you hear back, even if it’s not an offer—it’s so much easier to think about the negative notes than the positive ones . . . and give yourself permission to be anxious too / I mean here you’ve put your heart out there for the world to see / it’s the hardest thing ever, but you know you’d do it again in a second. 

If you had any rejections, how did you deal with that emotionally? How did this kind of rejection compare to query rejections? 

Reading about other people’s rejections helped / knowing that some of the biggest success stories are novels that only had one offer (and dozens of rejections). For me, what got me through too was knowing that I’d written the best book I was capable of at the time, that I held nothing back, that I offered up the highest level of writing I could do then . . . that makes it a lot easier. The hope is that you’ll always keep growing and improving as a writer, but you have to be able to look in the mirror and say that you gave it all you had.

If you got feedback on a rejection, how did you process it? How do you compare processing an editor’s feedback as compared to a beta reader’s? 

My beta reader gave me three hundred track changes and tore the book apart . . . what the editor had to say was easy to take after that . . . And as far as rejections, as long as you find somebody who loves your story to pieces, the rejections don’t matter.

When you got your YES! how did that feel? How did you find out – email, telephone, smoke signal? 

I talked to the editors who were interested and then they made their offers . . . I loved them all and so it came down to figuring which editor seemed to love my story and my characters the most . . . you have to rely on your gut, and it’s not always the editor offering the highest advance. The road to publication is so difficult; if you don’t start with absolute love then your foundation’s always shaky.

Did you have to wait a period of time before sharing your big news, because of details being ironed out? Was that difficult? 

We were able to share the news immediately and had some pink champagne!!!! The time between selling the book and receiving the editorial letter is precious. You have nothing to do but share your good news . . . it’s the lull before the storm of revising rolls in. Enjoy it!!!

Wednesday WOLF - Cry Uncle

I'm such a big nerd that I tend to look up word origins in my spare time because I'm fascinated by our language. The odder the origin, the better. I've got a collection of random information in my brain that makes me an awesome Trivial Pursuit partner, but is completely useless when it comes to real world application. Like say, job applications.

I thought I'd share some of this random crap with you in the form of another acronym-ific series. I give you - Word Origins from Left Field - that's right, the WOLF... ignore the fact that the "from" doesn't fit.

A recent tweet caught my eye in which the tweeter was wondering where the phrase "cry uncle" comes from. In case you don't know, to cry uncle means to admit to the physical superiority of someone attacking you, usually in a bullying situation.

While I can't back it up with any serious proof, there are two really interesting theories I wanted to share with you. Crying uncle didn't appear in written English until 1918, and one theory posits that perhaps the use of the term arises from the Gaelic anacol, meaning "protection" or "safety." There would've been plenty of Irish immigrant children to bully during that time period, and their native cry for help could've been misinterpreted by their English speaking aggressors.

I like that one, but there's a Roman version too. In Ancient Rome, the paternal uncle held nearly as much power over a child as the father. Courtyard games included a physical wrangling in which the loser had to cry, "Patrue, mi Patruissimo!" (Uncle! My favorite Uncle!) in order to be freed. In doing so, they were naming their attacker as a person who had real power over them, and that sign of respect allowed their freedom.

Hmmm... both interesting. But I don't have a paternal uncle, so I guess I'll just have to keep taking those self-defense classes.

Interview with Katie Bayerl

Inspiration is a funny thing. It can come to us like a lightning bolt, through the lyrics of a song, or in the fog of a dream. Ask any writer where their stories come from and you’ll get a myriad of answers, and in that vein I created the WHAT (What the Hell Are you Thinking?) interview. Always including in the WHAT is one random question to really dig down into the interviewees mind, and probably supply some illumination into my own as well.

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Today's guest is debut author Katie Bayerl, whose book A PSALM FOR LOST GIRLS releases today! Katie is a proud graduate of the Vermont College of Fine Arts Writing for Children and Young Adults program and teaches in Grub Street's creative writing program. She has an incurable obsession with saints, bittersweet ballads, and murder. It’s becoming a problem. You can find Katie on her site, Twitter, and Facebook.

Ideas for our books can come from just about anywhere, and sometimes even we can’t pinpoint exactly how or why. Did you have a specific origin point for your book?

YES. Well, actually there were a few different experiences and obsessions that fed this book (insert long backstory about my Catholic childhood, struggles with being labeled a “gifted” kid, lifelong obsession with female religious figures, etc), but the bits came together and sparked into a story while I was visiting the Basilica of Our Lady of Fátima in Portugal—the site where three children claimed to see the Virgin Mary in 1917. I made my visit in 2008, the same year Pope Benedict decided to hurry up and beatify Lúcia Santos, the last of the Children of Fátima to pass away.

A little backstory on her: Lúcia was 10 years old when she and her two cousins saw the Virgin Mother. The cousins died soon after, leaving Lúcia to carry this legacy on her own. She joined a convent (which, I guess, is what you do when everyone around thinks you’re a saint) and remained a cloistered nun until she died at age 97.

Now, by all accounts (including her memoirs), Lúcia was a woman of deep faith, but as soon as I learned the bare bones of her story, I became consumed with a completely fictional question: What if a young girl got stuck with a reputation of sainthood when all she wanted was to be a normal girl?

That question became Tess. 

Once the original concept existed, how did you build a plot around it?

Well, so, if you’ve read the description of A PSALM FOR LOST GIRLS, you know the main character isn’t Tess. It’s her younger sister, Callie. So the story’s concept shifted a lot.

I had the Fátima question knocking around in my head when I began studying at Vermont College of Fine Arts in 2008, but I wasn’t sure yet what type of book it would be, and I had three other novels I wanted to write first. But then I had a workshop deadline and cranked out—what I thought was—a completely different short story about a semi-delinquent girl rebelling in the wake of her holy sister’s death. Ha. Hahaha. 

(Fact: I am terrible at short stories. They always want to turn into novels.) 

got excited enough about Callie’s story and decided early on that the plot would center around an investigation, with Callie going up against her community. I had a sense of where it would end and some of the things Callie would need to do to get there, but… the first attempt was a mess. 

Have you ever had the plot firmly in place, only to find it changing as the story moved from your mind to paper

All. The. Time. I especially seem to have a lot of discoveries around page 100 or so. I will often cycle back a few times to sort out the opening before I can see to the end.

This novel had more drafts than I know how to count, thanks to all of the circling and some smart feedback. My first draft included chapters from dead Tess ‘s point of view (think: The Lovely Bones), looking down on, and into the minds of, her community. And she was amazing! But several readers pointed out that this voice robbed the story of its main mystery—i.e., whether Tess was truly a saint.  

So I took out her voice and felt sad about it, even as I kept working on getting Callie’s story right—and then I landed my wonderful agent, Erin Harris, who asked: Would you be up for a revision? What if you tried including Tess’s voice? When I was done laughing, I realized Erin really shared my vision for the book and, suddenly, I saw a way to bring Tess into the story in a way that wouldn’t be such a spoiler. The original sparkle came back, and I fell in love with both Callie and Tess in a much deeper way. 

And then I met my brilliant editor, Stacey…

Do story ideas come to you often, or is fresh material hard to come by?

I have way more ideas than I can handle. I had another one last night! Sometimes it feels like a traffic jam of ideas. Because, see above, it takes me a loooong time to execute a truly finished draft. (I keep hoping I’ll get smarter and more efficient.) (Don’t laugh. A girl needs to dream!) 

Anyway, shiny new ideas = my favorite. It’s a little like an amazing first date. I lose my head a little, getting caught up in the imagining, day dreaming and scribbling notes when I should be working on bill-paying things, stopping in the middle of sidewalks to leave myself voice memos. (Voxer is my savior!) 

How do you choose which story to write next, if you’ve got more than one percolating?

So far I’ve been guided by stubbornness. The next story I work on seems to be the one that I’ve been working at longest and that I’m too hardheaded to drop. I do cheat on my main projects sometimes just to mix things up. (That’s how I ended up with four substantial projects in the pipeline.) But it’s been a long time since I questioned which one was next. I’m kind of head over heels for the book that comes after PSALM (title is, ironically: WHAT COMES AFTER), and I needs/must finish it soon!

I usually have a cat or two with me while I write. They’re good for a pet if I need a moment away from the screen, and don’t seem to mind if I ignore them completely as long as I’m sharing body heat. Do you have a writing companion? 

Two cats over here! One on each arm. But let’s keep that between us, eh? If my physical therapist caught wind of what’s going on, I’d get zero sympathy for this creaky shoulder and wrist.