Submission Thoughts from Polly Holyoke

If there's one thing that many aspiring writers have few clues about, it's the submission process. There are good reasons for that; authors aren't exactly encouraged to talk in detail about our own submission experiences, and - just like agent hunting - everyone's story is different. I managed to cobble together a few non-specific questions that some debut authors have agreed to answer (bless them). And so I bring you the submission interview series - Submission Hell - It's True. Yes, it's the SHIT.

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Today's guest, Polly Holyoke, is a fellow Lucky13 and also a member of the Class of 2k13. Polly's debut, THE NEPTUNE PROJECT will be available from Disney Hyperion in 2013.

How much did you know about the submission process before you were out on subs yourself?

I knew a fair amount about how the process went when a manuscript was submitted to a few houses at a time. I knew very little about how auctions actually worked, and to my great surprise, my agent decided to take that route for NEPTUNE.

Did anything about the process surprise you?

I was surprised by how quickly the process went. I keep hearing how slammed the editors are (and I know that’s true) but somehow my agent was able to get editors at twelve different houses to read my manuscript within a period of two weeks.

What was the average amount of time it took to hear back from editors?

I think my agent heard back from a few publishers within a few days indicating they did not intend to bid on NEPTUNE. The rest we didn’t hear from until close to the end.

What do you think is the best way for author out on submission to deal with anxiety?

Eat chocolate, go for long walks, and then eat more chocolate??? Actually, I just tried to stay busy and worked on another book. I think it’s really important to always have that next project in the works, just in case you do meet with a discouraging rejection. I always love the planning and early stages of a novel. The daydreaming part is my favorite, so I managed to lose myself there. And then I ate more chocolate…

If you had any rejections, how did you deal with that emotionally?  How did this kind of rejection compare to query rejections?

We tried for a pre-empt, and we were turned down within twenty-four hours. That was definitely an ouch because I loved the house that we contacted first. I was amazed and encouraged, though, that my agent had the clout to get a book read by an editor-in-chief so quickly. I had to feel optimistic about my story’s chances in the long haul. My agent was also very kind about making me feel like the failure of his pre-empt attempt was all his fault for sending the book to the wrong house.

The stakes were so much higher in an auction than for your regular ole garden variety query rejection. I’ve been in this game long of enough to have experienced dozens (okay, honestly, probably hundreds!) of query rejections. I think because my agent was so excited about the project, he almost had me convinced that everyone was going to bid on it -- which did not happen. So, the first few rejections definitely hurt more than query rejections, I’d developed a pretty thick skin about them. Hearing that a couple of the big houses were definitely dropping out of the hunt early on was a surprise, but my agent was so positive, he made me think we’d definitely have a sale, and he was right, bless his heart.

If you received feedback on a rejection, how did you process it? How do you compare processing an editor’s feedback as compared to a beta reader’s?

I always try to appreciate the feedback I receive from editors and put it to good use. If I hear from two editors in a row that my story has a serious flaw, I’ll definitely try to change it. But our rejections in this case had more to do with the fact NEPTUNE wasn’t really the right kind of story for several of the more literary houses we contacted. I always take all my beta readers’ feedback seriously, but I have to put an editor’s feedback within the context of their market and niche. At the same time, editors do have such an incredible perspective on books. Sometimes I think good editors look at novels the way mechanics look at automobiles. Editors can see the body, engine, and interior workings of a manuscript so clearly. BTW, because editors’ input can be extremely valuable, I encourage writers to sign up for editors’ critique at conferences.   

When you got your YES! How did that feel? How did you find out – email, telephone, smoke signal?

Let’s see, I heard the big yes by telephone, and by then I was a little wrung out from the two week wait (and very full of… you guessed it – chocolate!) It did come down to the final day at the final hour my agent set for the end of the auction. I remember standing looking out my office window and listening to him tell me the details of the deal, and they pretty much just washed over me. I was incredibly happy, and incredibly relieved that the long two weeks were over, and we did have a good deal in hand. It definitely took a while to sink in. But then I believe I did start whooping and dancing and making my sundry dogs and cats very worried – but that whole ecstatic afternoon is a blur to me now.

Did you have to wait a period of time before sharing your big news because of details being ironed out? Was that difficult?

I didn’t have to wait at all before telling folks, which was a very good thing! I think I probably told my mailman, the UPS man, and the checker at the grocery store. I did call my husband first, and I even texted my daughters at school. Then literally the next day I was talking to a media agent in LA and hearing about all the studios that were going to be receiving copies of my manuscript. I believe someone’s still trying to make a treatment of it now. I do notice no one’s actually paid us option money yet, but it was surreal and very fun realizing my sea story was actually floating around Hollywood, so to speak!

Looking back on all the excitement, I realize I was so very lucky to sign with a good agent who had the “clout” to get my story read and taken seriously. I’ve had three agents now in the course of my colorful career, and this submission process brought home to me once again that having a great agent in your corner can make all the difference.

Jenny Martin On Cussing Out Your Self-Doubts

If there's one thing that many aspiring writers have few clues about, it's the submission process. There are good reasons for that; authors aren't exactly encouraged to talk in detail about our own submission experiences, and - just like agent hunting - everyone's story is different. I managed to cobble together a few non-specific questions that some debut authors have agreed to answer (bless them). And so I bring you the submission interview series - Submission Hell - It's True. Yes, it's the SHIT.

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Today's guest has been in the mire along with me for the past few years. Jenny Martin and I met on writerly sites such as AgentQueryConnect and QueryTracker, and I can tell you that this girl has put her dues in. I'm thrilled to tell you that her Sci-Fi TRACKED will be available from Penguin/Dial in 2014.

How much did you know about the submission process before you were out on subs yourself?

I knew a little bit about it. I’d watched quite a few comrades-in-arms go through the process. My friends always talked about it in hushed tones, as if the experience was nothing less than a confrontations with Dementors, something they’d narrowly survived. And you know, I totally get that now. That’s pretty much what it feels like--a risky Azkaban prison break.

Did anything about the process surprise you?

Yes. I didn’t know how many variables factor into editorial response. Not only must your book be semi-coherent, but it must find the right editor at the right time. Has the editor recently acquired something similar? Do they hate Sci Fi? Are they looking for MG or contemporary YA? Have they bought comparable titles in the past that didn’t sell through? Will sales and marketing get behind a book about a girl Han Solo-type who races cars on another planet two hundred years in the future?

The other thing that surprised me? How varied the responses are. You might get a really kind rejection. You might get a phone call (and make a new friend!). You might get a quick line. But then again, you might get nothing but soul sucking silence for the longest time. I suspect Sara, my wonderful agent, shielded me from some of the toughest rejections, but I’ve learned that you just can’t take it personally. Everyone has their own needs and tastes. Most editors and agents are nice, cool people--they really want to fall in love with a book, but sometimes they can’t. It’s the same with readers. I’ve made peace with that.

Did you research the editors you knew had your ms? Do you recommend doing that?

Yes. Again, I give props to Sara. She is very open about the process and even asked me if I had any suggestions or concerns. It was fun to be included submission strategy. Often, my MS went out to people I really admired. And I do admit to googling and twitter watching. You can’t control the process, but scouring for info made me feel less angst-y. I know that sounds backward, but with my Eeyore imagination, the unknown is always worse than reality. But I recommend doing what’s best for you. Even if that means closing your eyes and ears.

What was the average amount of time it took to hear back from editors?

Based on the (limited) totally of my previous experiences, responses can come in any range, from after just a few days to after months and months and months! With TRACKED, we did seem to get some responses fairly quickly, but even then, things didn’t start to happen right away.

True confession, comrades: Before TRACKED, I’d been on sub with other books. (I’ve even been agented before, when I wasn’t quite mature enough as a writer.) I am all too familiar with the slow death of a project. It happens. And you cannot dwell on it. You have to keep writing and growing and developing your voice. The game isn’t over unless you quit.

And if you’re on sub right now, I want you to know that things can move very slowly and still turn out beautifully. After all the waiting, the week my book sold was very hectic--the glacial pace of submission melted into a stream of phone calls, e-mail and interest.

Another true confession: I had the pleasure of getting to know my future editor a bit before the book sold. Getting editorial feedback beforehand can be very scary, but in retrospect, I actually feel quite lucky! I don’t have to nail-bite over my first editorial letter or phone call. I’ve gotten a taste of my editor’s vision, and I know for sure that I’m in fabulous, capable hands. I mean it, the first time we talked, something just clicked. And now she’s my friend and partner in bringing the book into the world. At the end of the day, I landed at a dream house with the ideal editor for my work. All the those setbacks? They just sweetened the outcome.

What do you think is the best way for an author out on submission to deal with the anxiety?

Can I get maudlin and corny? I don’t know how else to say this: Writer friends, I really, really want you to know something. Going on submission is hard, but you can do it. You are brave enough. And I want you to know that your path--your particular journey--is normal and okay and that you are not alone. You might sell in a week. You might sell after years. You might self-publish to great acclaim. There are an infinite number of paths to success.

I wish I’d fully processed that along the way. So many times, I read about three day auctions and big deals and ‘overnight’ success stories and thought, “Something is wrong with me. I haven’t heard anything, so I must be a dreadful, terrible, loser-pants-wearing writer. Maybe I am wasting my time. I should quit.”

If you’re feeling that way, stop it. Cuss out those feelings of self-doubt. When you feel like you've got nothing left, when you can't believe anymore, hold on to the person in your life who won't let you quit.

That’s the best advice I can give about going on submission. Surrender. Recognize you can’t control the process and don’t stop writing. Open a blank word document or scrivener file and start something new. It helps.

If you had any rejections, how did you deal with that emotionally? How did this kind of rejection compare to query rejections?

Even though I’m an Eeyore and a self-doubter, rejections don’t hurt much. In fact, sometimes they are a relief, lending a sense of closure. I’ve been lucky in that I’ve never gotten any mean-spirited ones. When I was querying or on submission, I just let my heart pound for a minute, and then I let the rejection go. That’s all I could do.

If you got feedback on a rejection, how did you process it? How do you compare processing an editor’s feedback as compared to a beta reader’s?

I weighted editorial feedback very seriously, and I relied on my agent to help me decide what to do. (Thank heavens for Sara. You don’t even know how crazy special she is.) But honestly, most of the feedback conveyed the book just wasn’t what the particular editor was looking for--this business is very subjective. Yes, there’s always room to improve, and you should improve, but so much depends on the MS landing in the right hands at the right moment.

When you got your YES! how did that feel? How did you find out – email, telephone, smoke signal?

I think Sara knew an offer might be coming beforehand, but she didn’t want my hopes getting dashed. When she was more certain, she e-mailed to prepare me. I was watching TV (Dexter, Season Five) with my husband and my best friend. I started sobbing. It was this hideous, silent bawl-fest and at first, I couldn’t even speak at all. My husband thought someone had died or something. I passed the phone to him, and then we all just rejoiced. In the next few days, there were many more e-mails and phone calls about details, interest, etc. I may or may not have gotten choked up when Sara told me the final outcome. Okay, yeah. I did. I’m corny and ridiculous. So sue me.

Did you have to wait a period of time before sharing your big news, because of details being ironed out? Was that difficult?

I knew I was a Penguin(!!!!!) on Wednesday, but we wanted to wait until the PM announcement went live. I had to wait a few days. Felt like the longest days of my life. When I posted the news to Twitter, my iPhone exploded, sending rainbows through the prism of my heart. I know, I’m such a freaking Care Bear. I’m probably losing all my credibility here. My protagonist is a BAMF, I swear.

On Submission with Justina Ireland

If there's one thing that many aspiring writers have few clues about, it's the submission process. There are good reasons for that; authors aren't exactly encouraged to talk in detail about our own submission experiences, and - just like agent hunting - everyone's story is different. I managed to cobble together a few non-specific questions that some debut authors have agreed to answer (bless them). And so I bring you the submission interview series - Submission Hell - It's True. Yes, it's the SHIT.

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Today's guest is fellow Lucky13er Justina Ireland, author of VENGEANCE BOUND.

How much did you know about the submission process before you were out on subs yourself?

VENGEANCE BOUND was my second book to go on submission…my first one didn’t sell *cue sad trumpet.* So for the second book I was kind of an old pro at the process.

For my first book I researched the submission process by reading author blogs and just about everything Google had to offer. And then I tried to estimate where I was at each point. It honestly just made me a little crazy. Okay, it made me more than a little crazy. It made me the Mayor of Crazytown.

Since that one didn’t sell (and my husband threaten to ship me off to a cabin in the woods for the next time), I decided to just close my eyes and pretend I wasn’t on submission for the second book. Instead, I read all of the books I’d been putting off for the past few months (after I opened my eyes, of course), and just enjoyed a self declared writing hiatus. I was only on submission for a month before I got an offer, and the time seemed to go quickly because I was focused on something else.

Okay, that’s a total lie. I was still obsessively checking my email and the days went by so s-l-o-w-l-y. But I did get a lot of reading done and I didn’t obsess like I did the first go round.

Did anything about the process surprise you?

How hard it is to wait, and how little feedback I got on rejections. For the most part, my agent prefers to keep the rejections to herself unless I ask for them. Beyond a “Yeah, so-and-so passed,” I never got anything back.

And after asking for and reading the three pages of rejections from the first book, I can tell you I much prefer it that way. For me, rejections didn’t do anything but make me question my writing. Not all readers are going to love your book. But it’s hard to remember that someone liking a book is a matter of taste when the someone in question is an editor.

Did you research the editors you knew had your ms? Do you recommend doing that?

I did for the first book. I didn’t for the second. Now, I trust my agent to be able to figure out where my book would be a good fit. It’s part of her job.

Plus, it was a little weird Googling people the first go round. It made me feel a little like a stalker. And agent/editor stalking may be the unhealthiest form of addiction, ever.

So I don’t really recommend researching editors. It will just make you crazy when they acquire a manuscript that’s just like yours except with fairies and a prep school and set in Pennsylvania instead of Antarctica.

What was the average amount of time it took to hear back from editors?

On the first book I didn’t hear anything back for about two months (even though my agent may have gotten passes before that). With my second I heard back pretty quickly, about a month after everyone got everything. And I think everyone came back at about the same time.

What do you think is the best way for an author out on submission to deal with the anxiety?

Psychotropic drugs.

Kidding!

Sort of.

Stay busy. I always try to work on my next idea, or catch up on reading, or even just watch that season of TV I missed. Since I miss a lot of TV and my TBR pile is huge (I work full time so writing time is also everything else time), those are usually my default.

If you had any rejections, how did you deal with that emotionally? How did this kind of rejection compare to query rejections?

My editor rejections were about the same as my query rejections. Bland, polite and vague, with one or two sometimes offering some helpful advice. But usually not helpful at all. I wouldn’t look for much help in editor suggestions.

But even though they were vague, they were still a little demoralizing. I didn’t really think I’d internalized the rejections from the first book until I was revising my second book. I started to doubt my writing, doubt the stories I had to tell.

But finally I had to put all of that aside and just try to be zen about it. My stories might still suck, but they’re my sucky stories. And I don’t really think they suck. I think they’re awesome. But it’s taken me a long time to silence that inner editor and learn to write again.

So editor rejections? Yeah, generally a bad idea to read them.

If you got feedback on a rejection, how did you process it? How do you compare processing an editor’s feedback as compared to a beta reader’s?

In the first submission go round I tried to synthesize editor rejection into some kind of a rewrite. Unlike a beta reader’s suggestions, which are pointed and specific, most of the rejecting editor’s suggestions weren’t so much rejections as “this is why I didn’t really care for it.” Looking back, rewriting the manuscript just made it worse. After all, it was like taking an entire critique groups input and applying it wily nily. Not a good idea, and not something I will do again.

I guess I should clarify that there are exceptions to the above rules. If it’s a revise and resubmit or done after a long discussion with your agent, then go for using some editorial feedback. But for everything else I would just move on to the next manuscript. No sense in banging your head against the wall.

When you got your YES! how did that feel? How did you find out – email, telephone, smoke signal?

Carrier pigeon ☺ It felt pretty cool, but mostly surreal. I had a call from my agent that an editor was interested, and that turned into three editors being interested. The feeling was unreal after NOBODY wanted my first book (yes, I still have some residual grief over my unsold darling). We ended up going to auction, and when I found out that Simon and Schuster were the best bid, I was a little giddy. I never really thought my debut would be with a big house.

I think I’m still getting used to the idea that I’m going to have a real book. With pages! And typeface! And an ISBN!

Did you have to wait a period of time before sharing your big news, because of details being ironed out? Was that difficult?

Nope, we shared the news almost as soon as we sold, and it was probably for the best. I have a huge mouth, and I always tell people not to tell me their secrets, because I will inevitably blab it to the wrong person. The internet is probably the worst thing to ever happen to someone like me.

Thank goodness it was on Publisher’s Marketplace a few days after it sold. I never would’ve been able to keep such exciting news a secret.