Today's guest is Karen McManus, NYT Bestselling author of multiple YA murder mysteries, including her newest release, Nothing More to Tell. Karen joined me to talk about pacing, plot and motive in murder mysteries, as well as knowing when social media isn't helping you anymore.
Penny Goetjen on The Inspiration for The Woman Underwater
Inspiration is a funny thing. It can come to us like a lightning bolt, through the lyrics of a song, or in the fog of a dream. Ask any writer where their stories come from and you’ll get a myriad of answers, and in that vein I created the WHAT (What the Hell Are you Thinking?) interview.
Today’s guest for the WHAT is Penny Goetjen, author of The Woman Underwater
Ideas for our books can come from just about anywhere, and sometimes even we can’t pinpoint exactly how or why. Did you have a specific origin point for your book?
For The Woman Underwater, the original snippet of an idea for the story came from a scene in Robin William’s movie Dead Poets Society. I was intrigued by the room in the attic where the boys stored their trunks during the school year. I got to thinking of how someone could hide or something could be hidden there for an extended period of time and no one would be the wiser. From there, I reflected on the experiences our sons had a private boarding school in Connecticut and characters began to develop as well as the gist of the story. I dug in and started writing, enjoying the journey along the way.
I’m often amused by the origin of my inspiration. While I was writing the second book in my Precipice Series set on the coast of Maine, I was outside for some fresh air, deep in thought about how to have my antagonist make a dramatic entrance so he would have witnesses to corroborate his timing. At that moment a small plane flew over and it came to me that he would arrive by seaplane. Problem solved.
Once the original concept existed, how did you build a plot around it?
I’m one of those fiction writers who doesn’t plot. I’ve always loved to write but in school when a teacher would assign an essay and we had to construct an outline first, I thought I was going to stop breathing before I came up with it. I hated writing an outline then, and I still do. I actually tried it recently in an attempt to be “more efficient” writing my next book. It was a painful process but I finally completed my outline. The only problem was that when I started to write, my brain thought I’d already written the story, so I struggled to get the words down. It was brutal. I won’t try that again. Clearly, I need to let the characters take the lead and escort me through the story.
Have you ever had the plot firmly in place, only to find it changing as the story moved from your mind to paper?
My plot is never firmly in place and I like it that way—so does my subconscious. When I finish a writing session, I truly believe my subconscious takes over and ruminates on where the story will go next. When I pick up the next day, I read the previous couple of pages to familiarize where I (we) left off and then I start into writing without hesitation.
Those of us who write like this—and it’s quite common—are called pantsers because we write by the seat of our pants. And honestly, it’s a blast. I often don’t know what’s coming on the next page and can be as surprised as the reader.
Early on in my writing, I questioned whether or not I was going about it the right way. Was I cutting corners? Was I supposed to suck it up and write the outline first? Then I read an interview with Stephen King in which he revealed he’s a pantser, so at that moment all doubts about my writing style evaporated.
Do the story ideas come to you often, or is fresh material hard to come by?
My stories are character driven and there’s usually no shortage of characters pestering me to write about them. If I were ever lacking a character or two, I could spend some time people watching. Besides the fact that it’s fascinating, I end up jotting down observations in the notes app on my phone so I don’t forget any of the juicy details that makes a person so interesting. The only problem is I have hundreds of notes, and I’ve never been accused of being overly organized.
A recent trip through the Orlando airport provided some entertaining character “research.” By the time I’d reached baggage claim, I’d filled a page of notes. I mean, grown humans with offspring in tow sporting all manner of Disney attire is a sight to behold. One of my favorite “characters” was a rather large woman with a flouncy, red and white polka dot Minnie skirt, knee length compression shorts that peeked out from under the hem, a skin-tight sleeveless white t-shirt that defined every—well, you get the idea.
How do you choose which story to write next, if you’ve got more than one percolating?
My subconscious seems to be in the driver’s seat for this as well, steering me in the direction to take with respect to the next story. It always seems that when I’m midway through writing the current novel, the idea for the next one introduces itself, as if my subconscious wants to let me know there’s another adventure on the horizon and to keep things moving so I can get to the next project. Nothing like a subconscious with a sense of urgency!
I have 6 cats and a Dalmatian (seriously, check my Instagram feed) and I usually have at least one or two snuggling with me when I write. Do you have a writing buddy, or do you find it distracting?
I have two of the most adorable (we’re all objective about our pets, right?) Miniature Schnauzers who love to hang out with me while I write, but not always at the same time. I tend to move around to different locations within the house so I don’t get bored with my surroundings (and to avoid my messy office) so depending on the location there may only be room for one pup at a time, like on my favorite upholstered chair. Under my desk you will often see two salt and pepper-colored, wet-nosed sweethearts with the cutest floppy ears, expressive white eyebrows, and full-on, masculine-looking beards. But somehow those girls pull it off. In the winter, they’re great feet warmers which comes in handy since I wear flip flops year round.
Penny Goetjen writes murder mysteries where the milieus play as prominent a role as the engaging characters. A self-proclaimed eccentric known for writing late into the night, transfixed by the allure of flickering candlelight, Ms. Goetjen embraces the writing process, unaware what will confront her at the next turn. She rides the journey with her characters, often as surprised as her readers to see how the story unfolds. Fascinated with the paranormal, she usually weaves a subtle, unexpected twist into her stories.
Mike Woodward On Poking At Your Own Plot
Inspiration is a funny thing. It can come to us like a lightning bolt, through the lyrics of a song, or in the fog of a dream. Ask any writer where their stories come from and you’ll get a myriad of answers, and in that vein I created the WHAT (What the Hell Are you Thinking?) interview.
Today’s guest for the WHAT is M. P. Woodward, the author of The Handler which is the story of a disgraced former CIA operative who must go back in the field with only his ex-wife as his handler
Ideas for our books can come from just about anywhere, and sometimes even we can’t pinpoint exactly how or why. Did you have a specific origin point for your book?
I did! It was early January 2020 and I was in an airport about to board a flight for a business trip. I looked up at a TV screen and saw that CNN was covering a tragic event—the accidental shootdown of a civilian Ukrainian airliner over Tehran. The Iranian Air Defenses had blundered and taken down this innocent aircraft right over their own capital. On board the plane were several Iranian college kids, traveling back to school in Canada. In a prior life as an intelligence analyst, I had spent a lot of time thinking about Iran and knew how their Air Defense people might have made such a disastrous error. Perhaps because I was in an airport… perhaps because I have college-aged kids myself, I started to think about how the average Iranian parent would feel. By the time my flight was over, I had the broad outlines for a plot.
Once the original concept existed, how did you build a plot around it?
I started with a few “design principles,” which was how I thought of them at the time. First, I wanted the story to be about mid-level people who seemed real—with faults, hopes, dreams, bad habits, and sometimes unscrupulous motivations. I wanted them to be low enough on the totem pole that they didn’t always understand what they were doing. And even if they were playing the role of antagonist, I wanted the reader to be able to understand their motivations, to be able to sympathize with them. Second, I wanted tension in every relationship, even among allies. That was when I decided it would be fun to have a divorced couple as the core protagonists. Once I had that couple in mind, I homed in on a theme of familial bonds and trust—the idea that a strong, multi-layered relationship could overcome the most daunting challenge, even if no longer officially together as a couple.
Have you ever had the plot firmly in place, only to find it changing as the story moved from your mind to paper?
Absolutely—though I might state it differently. I think sometimes we can think we have a plot all set, but then when we put it on paper, we realize we have gaps. I don’t know how others do it, but I spent a lot of time writing out a Q and A for myself that would help firm up plot details. For example, I’d ask myself, “Why wouldn’t Character X already know about this? Why would Character Y even give a damn?” And then I’d lean back in my chair with my keyboard on my knees and let it rip. I’d type out long rambling, brain-storming answers until I had the right idea, or more questions, or both. I probably went through that little exercise twenty times as I made my way through the book. Sometimes the exercise would make me completely change some plot point I thought I’d had all worked out.
Do story ideas come to you often, or is fresh material hard to come by?
Now that I have a world of characters fully formed, story ideas do come to me often—at least at a high level. We currently live in a world where geopolitical risks are rising. I spend a few hours a day reading about them and often imagine what a potential story behind the story might be. If a good narrative involves a hero overcoming a challenge that ultimately leads to a personal transformation, it is not too hard to think about what some of those challenges on the world stage might be. Of course, the devil is in the details when it comes to weaving that into a compelling read.
How do you choose which story to write next, if you’ve got more than one percolating?
I try to have an idea for what I want my protagonists to go through—the personal flaw that they need to overcome. Once that’s established, then it’s a matter of finding the real-world context that can present the right set of challenges. For that, I usually have two or three ideas born of current events and start reading up on them. At least for me so far, I see patterns emerging in the news. Some of those often reveal an area of tension that would make for a hot cauldron into which I can throw my poor, suffering protagonists.
I have 6 cats and a Dalmatian (seriously, check my Instagram feed) and I usually have at least one or two snuggling with me when I write. Do you have a writing buddy, or do you find it distracting?
Funny you should ask. I wrote this book in the mornings when everyone was asleep—except for my fifteen-year-old cat, who would always greet me, whether I liked it or not. Most of the time she would sit reverently next to me as I wrote, like a little sphinx next to a temple. I found her purring to be a comfort. But sometimes, she’d start rubbing her face on the edge of the laptop screen in a bid for attention and, well, that would get irritating. But sadly, my cat, Mimi, passed away last month. Now I miss her dearly. I will have to train a new one.
M. P. Woodward is a veteran of both US intelligence ops and the entertainment industry. He is currently developing the international distribution strategy for the upcoming serial adaptation of The Lord of The Rings.