E.L. Deards on If At First You Don’t Succeed, Edit, Edit, Edit

If there's one thing that many aspiring writers have few clues about, it's the submission process. There are good reasons for that; authors aren't exactly encouraged to talk in detail about our own submission experiences, and - just like agent hunting - everyone's story is different. I managed to cobble together a few non-specific questions that some debut authors have agreed to answer (bless them). And so I bring you the submission interview series - Submission Hell - It's True. Yes, it's the SHIT.

Today’s guest for the SHIT is E.L. Deards, author of Wild with All Regrets

How much did you know about the submission process before you were out on subs yourself? 

Not very much to be honest, but I used my handy dandy google skills to put together a basic query letter and submission package (which includes query, bio, pitch, comp titles, target audience, synopsis (of varying lengths), and a section at the bottom for ritual sacrifice which may or may not help.  

After a number of rejections I sought some professional help and had my novel edited and the query package reviewed and tweaked.  I think I have the basics down now, and have had more success with more newer works with querying than I did with Wild with All Regrets. 

Did anything about the process surprise you? 

How simultaneously formulaic and soul crushing it was! I think many baby writers probably start thinking that it’s going to be hard to pick an agent from the billions of offers you’re sure to get right form the offset, but my story was largely one of rejection or just being ignored.  

Did you research the editors you knew had your ms? Do you recommend doing that? 

Absolutely! This is a must do for anyone querying agents.  There are hundreds of agents getting hundreds of submissions every day, and it’s important to make yours stand out.  So my process is basically this: go on a website like querymanager or MSWL and filter by your genre.  Then go through all of the who are interested in your genre, and go to their pages.  From there, I try to see if we have similar interests, goals, or passions when it comes to fiction.  It’s worthwhile making sure they are actually open to queries, and also to make sure there isn’t another agent at their agency who might be a better fit for you.  Then, I tailor the query letter to reflect what it was about this person who made me want to submit my work to them.  

Sending out five specific, targeted queries is probably more likely to garner a positive response than sending out twenty random ones.  

What was the average amount of time it took to hear back from editors? 

Completely variable, some will respond in a day, some don’t respond at all.  Being a cute little autistic like I am, I have a giant spreadsheet where I keep track of submissions and try to include notes like ‘can poke in 8 weeks’ or ‘will only reply if interested.’

What do you think is the best way for an author out on submission to deal with the anxiety? 

Don’t take it personally.  I made a concerted effort to stop having ‘hope’ about any of my submissions, and just assume that they’d all be rejections.  What this meant was that I was never sad and would sometimes have a pleasant surprise.  It’s a lot easier to do this once you realize that most agents will say no, and that it doesn’t reflect on you as a writer.  That being said, the project you’re working on now is probably not the last thing you’ll ever write, or even the best thing you’ll ever write.  Keep honing your craft and try your best.  Not everyone will get an agent, and that’s okay too. Try your best, and write if it makes you happy.  

If you had any rejections, how did you deal with that emotionally? How did this kind of rejection compare to query rejections? 

That was a lot harder, since one tends to get one’s hopes up a little more when you’ve made it past the slush pile stage.  You start questioning if you’re a good writer or if anyone will want to read your work and so on.  I kept reminding myself that I wouldn’t want representation from someone who didn’t believe in the project anyway, and a good fit was worth waiting for.  I think what helped me was realizing that my book was quite niche and weird and it’s not that surprising if a traditional publisher wasn’t that excited about taking a chance on it.  It’s hard.  It’s really hard.  I think my main advice would be to try and keep an emotional distance from the process. 

If you got feedback on a rejection, how did you process it? How do you compare processing an editor’s feedback as compared to a beta reader’s?

I didn't get any feedback from rejections unfortunately, but with any kind of feedback I try and determine whether it's worth making any changes to the narrative.  Feedback you get consistently is probably worth looking at, but other types of feedback may not be as valuable.  Some people have different tastes, and no manuscript is going to be perfect for anyone.  I tried to weigh up the vision I had for the book, how difficult making a change would be, and whether I thought it would improve the narrative, before adjusting anything in the manuscript.  I'd probably give more importance to an editor's feedback than a beta reader's, but if they've already rejected me I don't need to change everything to make them happy.  

When you got your YES! how did that feel? How did you find out – email, telephone, smoke signal? 

It was unbelievable.  Submitting to SheWrites was actually going to be my last attempt at getting Wild with All Regrets published since I was so frustrated with the process.  I got an email basically saying that my book had been greenlit and I was so happy that I danced around my desk for a bit and left early cause I was too excited to do any real work.  I remember driving home, blasting Ukranian folktronica music and just going YES!!!

Did you have to wait a period of time before sharing your big news, because of details being ironed out? Was that difficult? 

Nah, I just kept things vague while the details were being hammered out.  I couldn’t really believe it was happening and I didn’t want to jinx it.  I still kind of can’t believe it happened, I’ll let you know if it was a dream I guess.

E.L. Deards grew up in New York City and attended Barnard College at Columbia University for her undergraduate degree.  She studied Japanese literature and biology and won two awards for writing during this time.  She was then accepted to The University of Edinburgh and completed her veterinary degree, and remained in the UK after completing her degree.  All throughout this time she has been honing her craft and writing every single day.  She loves being a vet, but writing gives her more peace and satisfaction than anything in the world.

Vanessa Cuti on Her Debut Novel "The Tip Line"

Inspiration is a funny thing. It can come to us like a lightning bolt, through the lyrics of a song, or in the fog of a dream. Ask any writer where their stories come from and you’ll get a myriad of answers, and in that vein I created the WHAT (What the Hell Are you Thinking?) interview. 

Today’s guest for the WHAT is Vanessa Cuti, author of The Tip Line, an unsettling thriller that asks just how far you should go to find love.

Ideas for our books can come from just about anywhere, and sometimes even we can’t pinpoint exactly how or why. Did you have a specific origin point for your book?

Yes! The original idea came from my experience working as a tip line operator. I was so fascinated by the things that callers would tell me. It was almost strange how intimate it was. I knew I had to write a book involving it in some way.

Once the original concept existed, how did you build a plot around it?

It really came down to character for me. Once I figured out Virginia (the main character) and her voice and really got into her head, her story just kind of unfurled.  

Have you ever had the plot firmly in place, only to find it changing as the story moved from your mind to paper?

Oh, absolutely. And I guess that’s sort of the magic but also the frustration of plotting a novel. You have something that you think is working…only to find out that it doesn’t. At all. 

Do story ideas come to you often, or is fresh material hard to come by?

It’s kind of like feast or famine for me. I’ve come to fear the famine periods but try to console myself with knowing that they will pass. With hoping so, anyway.

How do you choose which story to write next, if you’ve got more than one percolating?

I jump back and forth between things. Which is a sort of maddening way to do it. But I do this until I find my way into the work, be it story or novel. I always imagine it like finally being able to open a stuck door or window. Once I find that, it’s like I can just walk right in to the project. And then I’ll know that it’s the one I should move forward with. But I do find lots of things die at this stage, sadly. 

I have 6 cats and a Dalmatian (seriously, check my Instagram feed) and I usually have at least one or two snuggling with me when I write. Do you have a writing buddy, or do you find it distracting?

I have a very little but very loud writing buddy: a Pomeranian named Teddie. She chooses the most inopportune times to want to be a lap dog and yet I always let her.

Vanessa Cuti’s fiction has appeared in The Best American Short Stories 2021, The Kenyon Review, AGNI, West Branch, Indiana Review, Cimarron Review, The Cincinnati Review, Shenandoah, The Rumpus and others. She received her MFA from Stony Brook University and lives in the suburbs of New York. The Tip Line is Vanessa’s debut novel. You can find Vanessa on TikTok, Instagram, and Twitter.

Gretchen Cherington on Puzzling Together the World of "The Butcher, the Embezzler, and the Fall Guy-A Family Memoir of Scandal and Greed in the Meat Industry"

Inspiration is a funny thing. It can come to us like a lightning bolt, through the lyrics of a song, or in the fog of a dream. Ask any writer where their stories come from and you’ll get a myriad of answers, and in that vein I created the WHAT (What the Hell Are you Thinking?) interview. 

Today’s guest for the WHAT is Gretchen Cherington, author of The Butcher, the Embezzler, and the Fall Guy: A Family Memoir of Scandal and Greed in the Meat Industry

Ideas for our books can come from just about anywhere, and sometimes even we can’t pinpoint exactly how or why. Did you have a specific origin point for your book?

The origin for my new memoir came from listening to my father’s stories of growing up in Austin, Minnesota in the early 1900s. His father, Alpha LaRue Eberhart, the “fall guy” in my story, was recruited by George Hormel, the “butcher”, to help build what is now the multi-billion dollar conglomerate Hormel Foods. Hormel hired the “embezzler,” quickly promoted him to comptroller of the company, and through a ten year stretch from about 1912-1921, stole almost $1.2 Million from the company coffers and nearly brought it to its knees. 

My father described these events from his childhood in nearly mythological terms and these three men were regularly displayed as full-fledged characters on our family stage. Rumors circulated that my grandfather was “in cahoots” with the embezzler. My father cast George Hormel as the villain of the story since he’d forced my grandfather’s resignation after the embezzlement was discovered. But I’d spent my career advising CEOs and senior executives and knew men in power were rarely so easily construed. In my early fifties I picked up the story and began to write. 

Five years ago, as I was finishing my first memoir Poetic License, I’d embedded about 10,000 words of this story in the book. Brooke Warner, my developmental editor, however strongly suggested they didn’t belong there. No, she said, this is your second book. From fall 2020 to fall 2022, I freshened the research I’d done twenty years before, and entirely rewrote a new book which comes out on June 6. 

So in one sense this story has been on my mind for many decades, but in another way it didn’t really turn into a book until Covid kept me inside!

Once the original concept existed, how did you build a plot around it?

This book required a lot of research. Not only was I trying to uncover the truth of what happened, but I was writing about a brand name company. I wanted to be as diligent and careful as I could be with the information I was gathering. I made three trips to Austin. MN (pre-Covid) to interview people who’d known about these men, get a feel for the place, the soft plains of southern Minnesota, and the culture of the small Midwestern city. I spent hours poring over historical documents about the three men involved, as well as reading records of US history, early nation builders, and economic and political swings of the early 1900s. And I was fortunate that my father had kept four cardboard boxes filled with my grandfather’s business letters and documents from that time. 

It wasn’t until I had a thorough understanding of all the characters and the period that I began to build the plot. Intuitively I thought a braided story of these three men, the embezzlement, and the near default of the Hormel company, coupled with my own story of awakening to my family’s history and the myths would be the way to go. But I also had to consider how to unveil the crime story, how to build tension through the narrative, and how to deal with some last minute information that came as a surprise (no spoilers here!). All this plotting work was done during the developmental editing phase. After that, it was about polishing and sharpening the words, getting rid of extraneous graphs and scenes, and trying to come to final conclusions about what I think happened. It was like puzzling together a mass of facts, memories, and speculations, along with plot points to come up with a readable whole. I had great fun writing this book! I don’t mean it was easy because it wasn’t, with many considerations about conveying three characters I’d never met, but coalescing the evidence into a coherent story was a space I’m very drawn to. 

Have you ever had the plot firmly in place, only to find it changing as the story moved from your mind to paper?

Yes! My starting narrative was that my grandfather had done no wrong; rather, George Hormel had wronged him; and the embezzler was a wily, pointy-eyed megalomaniac. But from my career working with CEOs, I knew that was too simple a conclusion. The story is really about the myths we hold about people in power and reconciling with our complicated legacies. Late in the process, I happened upon critical information that required a partial rewrite. And then there was a poem of my father’s written about these events that I wanted to include—but where to put it and how to frontload it to make sense were pieces of the puzzle that stymied me for weeks. Finishing the last four chapters took many revisions!

Do story ideas come to you often, or is fresh material hard to come by?

I find fresh, book-length material, hard to come by. A writing friend recently spent days on Cape Cod and plotted an entire new historical novel on her flight back to Seattle. How I wish stories came to me like that. I think my talent is best served by taking true stories and shaping them into books that readers can become engrossed in, examining their own history while finding their own insights.  

My third book (in the works) is a novel, involving another true crime and very complicated family legacies, but it won’t be about my family! I’ve mined that quarry for now. 

How do you choose which story to write next, if you’ve got more than one percolating?

I have another nonfiction book percolating but I’m not feeling the obsession to pounce on it right away. Perhaps it needs more percolating. My two memoirs and the novel have all captured my intense interest since I began to think about them. That seems to be the way I work best. To be so obsessed by something I’m willing to devote whatever number of years it requires. While still a “new” author, I’m thankfully getting smarter and more efficient in the process of writing itself. 

I have 6 cats and a Dalmatian (seriously, check my Instagram feed) and I usually have at least one or two snuggling with me when I write. Do you have a writing buddy, or do you find it distracting?

Sometimes I wish I had a dog or cat sitting at my feet but the birds and critters outside my windows keep me company. I love seeing wild beings pass by on foot or under wing. They inspire me with their color, their sounds, and their daily routines like nest building and searching for food. What a wonder the world is!

Other than that, I’m best served with a view of the ocean or a deep forest, the aroma of my husband’s spectacular sourdough bread baking in the kitchen, or urgent plans to get outside for a hike or bike. But wait, I have to finish this chapter! Overall I like few auditory distractions while generating pages. I can handle more when I’m revising. This may in part be due to having Ménières Disease through which I’ve lost about half of my hearing. This makes listening to conversation, music, ambient noise, etc., requires about 30% added effort than for those with good hearing. Quiet is as much a balm for my imagination as it is for constant stimulation.

Still, a cuddly puppy or kitten is immensely joyous!

Gretchen Cherington’s first view of powerful men was informed at the feet of her father, Pulitzer Prize–winning poet Richard Eberhart, and his eclectic and fascinating writer friends, from Robert Frost to Allen Ginsberg to James Dickey. As an executive management consultant, she figured out what made powerful men tick by working alongside nearly three hundred of them in their corner suites during her 35 year career. Her first memoir, Poetic License, has won multiple awards; her writing has appeared in Crack the Spine, Bloodroot Literary Magazine, Women Writers/Women’s Books, MS. Girl, Yankee and more; and she was nominated for a Pushcart Prize for her essay “Maine Roustabout” in 2012. Gretchen and her husband split their time between Portland, ME, and a saltwater cottage on Penobscot Bay.