Bestselling Author Lisa Regan On Writing The Josie Quinn Series

Mindy: Welcome to Writer Writer Pants on Fire, where authors talk about things that never happened to people who don't exist. We also cover craft, the agent hunt, query trenches, publishing, industry, marketing and more. I'm your host, Mindy McGinnis. You can check out my books and social media at mindymcginnis dot com and make sure to visit the Writer Writer Pants on Fire blog for additional interviews, query critiques and more as well as full transcriptions of each podcast episode. at WriterWriterPants on Fire.com. And don’t forget to check out the Writer, Writer, Pants on Fire Facebook page. Give me feedback, suggest topics you’d like to hear discussed, and let me know if there is someone you’d love to see a a guest.

Ad: Make your pages look professional with Vellum. Margins, headers, page numbering, font, line spacing - all happen automatically with every book you create. Generate ebooks for Kindle, Apple Books, Kobo and others. Or deliver a beautiful print book to your readers. Visit http://www.tryvellum.com/pants To learn more. Vellum. Create beautiful books.

Ad: Listen to the Mermaid and the Lion podcast, a scripted audio drama about two imperfect people working on perfecting their love for one another. Based on the true story of Angel and Gaza, the story begins before they met and will continue to unfold all of their experiences together, The Mermaid and the Lion is now in season three, The Newlywed Season with 20 episodes available on the feed and bonus content through Patreon. The Mermaid and the Lion podcast. 

Mindy: We're here with Lisa Regan, author of the Josie Quinn series, which has, at this point in time, thirteen books in the series. I would love to talk to you about writing crime thrillers and writing in particular, A single character for 13 books so far. What is that like in terms of writing a character and having an arc for her over such a long time?

Lisa: First of all I just wanted to say thank you so much for having me. It's a thrill to be here. And I love your podcast, I'm really excited to be here. I think the only way you can do it over that number of books is to have the character kind of grow and change personally and professionally. So that's really what I tried to do with Josie. I try to throw something new at her every book and see how she reacts and see - does she regress to old negative behaviors? Does she grow and change from this? Is she trying to be a better person? And honestly when I started the series, it was a three book contract and I just assumed that after those three books, I would be done, I thought that the sales wouldn't be there and I would just be starting something new. So she's really got a pretty complete arc across those first three books. When the series became popular, I had to go back and think again about how do I make this character last? She needs to grow and change as a person a little bit in each book.

Mindy: And what about writing her - kind of surprisingly - for that long? Like you were saying, you started out with a three book series and then Have written an additional 10 after that. At any point are you kind of scrambling for ways to keep yourself interested? 

Lisa: Not really. I mean, I did worry about that. It’s just so fun to write Josie. And the cast of characters have become like old friends, like family members and I never get tired of being around them or writing them or throwing new stuff at them. While I've been writing this series, I've been asked to write a short story here or there, you know, to contribute to anthologies or something like that and I always feel like I'm cheating on Josie and it's just the worst feeling. And then I wrote a 5000 word short story for the anthology for Writers Police Academy last year and I had to go back through it and weed out all of the “Josie’s” that I had dropped in there by accident, even though no one had a J name in the entire story. 

Mindy: So you are habitually writing Josie even when you're not?

Lisa: Yes. Yes. It's very hard now to not be writing josie. It just doesn't, it feels wrong. 

Mindy: I think that's so interesting. I have never worked with a character for that long. In my own books, the longest series that I've ever done. I've done duologies, but I have never written a character over that long period of time. The most interesting thing as a writer that I've ever experienced was writing a character in the first book who was a teenager and then 10 years have passed in the second book. She is an adult. And so that was interesting for me as a writer to take that huge leap and imagine what this person would be like 10 years later. So how much time has passed over the course of thirteen Josie books? 

Lisa: I had to slow it down because when I realized that the series was going to be significantly longer than three books I thought I can't get too far ahead of myself. So the book one I think is loosely Based in 2015. And then I had book two take place 18 months later and then after that every six months. But I was still moving a little too fast. So now I only have about three or four months elapsing between each book because otherwise I think that six or 7 years has probably passed in the series world. But I have to try and think slowly or else you know Josie will be 60 years old and retiring on book 16 or something. 

Mindy: It's interesting. My sister is an English teacher. She teaches in high school. She has weird little peccadilloes with odd things. So like for example the Outlander series - which I love telling people I was reading those books in the 90s. 

Lisa: I was reading them before too, I think 1996. I read my first one. 

Mindy: Yeah that's actually when I read mine too and I was just enamored immediately. And I love those books and I pushed them on everyone that I knew and I pushed them on my sister and she read, I think the first like two or three and then she was out and I was like, why? I don't understand? She likes things to be believable. She likes things to make sense more or less. And she's like - you know, Claire keeps running into all these important historical figures in the past. And she's like - it's just not believable that she would cross paths with all these famous people. It just doesn't make sense to me. And I'm like…. but you're okay with time travel?

Whenever in my own books, when I'm writing, time configuration, pacing is also a consideration. So for example, in my own books, when I'm writing something that is going on, it's usually taking place over like max three months. I have a book coming out in February where the entire book takes place over two days and it's intense, like constant. Something is going on every minute. From my sister's perspective, Josie would probably have a heart attack if these things were happening, these crazy events were happening to her every three months. But that's the difference between worrying about realism versus what serves the story best. 

I do a lot of editorial work and it's something that I work with my clients on and they'll be like, well, yeah, but…. If we were talking about Josie for example, they would be. Like, her life couldn't be that crazy every three months. And I'm like, well, you're talking about reality, you have to take on the concept of pacing and this is fiction, you do have to give yourself some space. So what are your thoughts about that? 

Lisa: I think that it just comes down to entertainment, you know, readers want to be entertained and I just don't think it's realistic from an entertainment standpoint, to have this character aged 40 years from book 1-10. I mean, you're aging the character right out of the series. I just think that readers care less about that and more about just being entertained. And also, you know, I tried to write in the past, like police investigations in my books that go according to what would be an actual timeline, which sometimes these investigations take years. You're always waiting weeks and months and sometimes years for evidence analysis to come back and you know, every time the editor will say to me, you can't do that. He's not going to go for that. So that's a challenge. 

But you know, again, the readers want to be entertained. They want to skip the lulls that are in real life and they want to get right to the meat of things, right to the meat of the story. So, I think that's really important to look at your books from this perspective of -  is this going to be entertaining or not, regardless of how accurate it is? You know, Karin Slaughter is one of my favorite authors of all time. I've read her first thriller Blindsided at least 20 years ago. If you went by actual time, her main characters should be pretty much retired by now. The time periods in the books are just very still very, very short And I don't care. I never even thought, Oh Sara Linton should be like 50 by now. It never even crossed my mind because I just want to read the book and I want to be swept up and I want to be entertained and I love the characters.

Mindy: Exactly, that is the primary thought and the primary reasoning for the author. Myself, I have the experience of when I was writing my third book which is historical, It is set in a real town in Ohio and I have a serial killer and they have this group of people attempting to catch a serial killer using the 1890s, the very beginnings of criminal profiling. Which they did have then. But it was rough. It was coming down to this killer more than likely was in a particular profession. And because I am a stickler, I was looking at census data from that particular city From the year 1890 and all of a sudden my stomach just bottomed out. My heart almost stopped. This book that I had been working on feverishly to hit my deadline -- and there were only two people in that particular profession. And I'm like, oh my gosh, So basically it's 50/50 and it would be really easy to figure out who it was.

Lisa: Oh no.

Mindy: And I was so upset and I'm like, I have to restructure my whole book, I have to change the killer, I have to change the MO. And I walked downstairs and I was just like, visibly upset. My boyfriend at the time was like, what’s wrong, are you okay? And I was like, no. And I explained. And he was like, so this is fiction, right? And I'm like, yes. And he's like, just make the city bigger and put more people with that profession in it. And I was like, oh, right!! Yes, reality is important. But that entertainment value, like you said, you have to remember that you're writing fiction.

Lisa: Yes. And I find that readers will suspend their disbelief a lot more and for a lot more reasons than writers and editors really worry about. 

Mindy: Absolutely. I worked in a school for 14 years and I was recently listening to a book that was set in school and it's about the staff and drama with the staff. And a lot of the things that were going on as far as interaction with students were just, it wouldn't happen that way. Like staff and students texting each other and things like that, and I was just like, no, like, that wouldn't happen, that's not allowed. And I was getting a little bit upset because I was like, this person has never worked at a school. They don't know. And then I was like, but as a writer -  they had to do it this way in order for the plot to unfold. The average reader is who you have to keep in mind and the average reader does not know the behind the scenes workings of a school.

Lisa: Sure, and I do this too. As a reader, I just take it at face value that this author has done their research, or as much research as they are able to do, and that the choices that they have made are for plot reasons. Maybe that's because I'm also a writer, but just the way I see it. 

Mindy: Some of the best advice I've ever heard is that you don't have to convince the experts, you know what you're talking about, You have to convince the layman that you know what you're talking about. 

Ad: Vellum. It just works. Best selling author Alex Lidell, whose book Enemy Contact an enemies to lovers romantic suspense, hit number 25 in Amazon's paid kindle store has this to say about Vellum: “There are always a ton of hang ups in the publishing process from the printer running out of ink at just the wrong moment to Amazon rejecting margins. But Vellum has been one program I can depend on. It formats my manuscripts quickly, professionally, and most importantly, in a way that never gets rejected by any online retailers. Visit www dot try vellum dot com forward slash pants to learn more. That's try V E L L U M dot com forward slash pants Vellum. It just works.

Ad: Kickstart your Christmas shopping with a virtual visit to the Wyld Art Gallery, featuring original Native American art pieces. Many of the artists whose work is for sale have pieces in the permanent collection at museums, including the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian. This season, give the gift of museum quality art at reasonable prices. Visit www.wyld.gallery to shop now.

Mindy: So when it comes to writing thrillers at this point, you have to be pretty mired in that particular world, I would imagine.

Lisa: I was kind of laughing because book 13 is called The Drowning Girls. And so obviously there's a drowning. I was going to write the autopsy scene and I realized, oh, I've done this drowning stuff a few times before. I was like, oh I don't even really have to do new research. I use a lot of medical journals and I talk to people in the field and I take notes. And so I just had to like, go back and refresh. There were some other things that I hadn't done before besides the drowning. So I did have a medical examiner read those pages for me and tell me, you know what I couldn't couldn't say. It's almost like I can slot the stuff in without even doing the research anymore because I've written about certain things so often.

Mindy: And when you first began doing that research back in Book one, What was your approach? How did you start cracking open that world? 

Lisa: I Had kind of a front row seat to that world in real life, years before I started writing crime thrillers because two members of my family had been murdered. And we went through the investigation and the arrests, the years leading up to the trial, this verdict, the sentencing, all of that stuff. That was my unwilling introduction to that world. And then I spent a lot of time in the Criminal justice Center, sitting in the hallway waiting for my turn to testify because they wouldn't let us watch each other testify. That place is filled with cops and detectives and people coming and going to various other trials. I was able to kind of pick the brains of a lot of different types of people. There was one guy, I actually met him on an elevator. He was part of Philadelphia's special victims unit and I had a great conversation with him about his work. So that kind of got me comfortable with cold calling police officers or detectives or medical examiners, whoever I needed to talk to to get the answers that I needed for my story. And I have a really good friend who I went to grade school with who works in a police department that is similar to the size of my fictional police department and he's really wonderful. He does answer all of my questions at any time of the day or night whenever I message him. So he's been a great help as well. 

Mindy: When you first were walking in and introducing yourself, you're not able to drop that I’m the USA Today Bestselling author...Your introduction now to someone I imagine is a little different than it was when you were first starting out. 

Lisa: It is. It was, it's a lot different actually. Um, I find that I get a lot more responses now. Whereas I would make 10 phone calls before and send 10 emails and maybe if I was lucky, one person would get back to me. And now pretty much as soon as I call someone or email someone, even if they can't help me, they'll get right back to me and say, you know, I don't have the answers to these questions. But it is a lot easier. Now I've been involved with the Writer’s Police Academy now for a couple of years and the gentleman that runs that, Lee Laughlin, is really super wonderful about getting me in touch with anybody I need. So if I'm really at a loss for who to talk to, I can contact him and say, hey, do you know any blood spatter experts or do you know any toxicologist? And those are his connections in law enforcement. So on his recommendations, they're usually pretty happy to answer my questions. 

Mindy: Have you ever reached out to someone and been like, hi, I'm Lisa Regan and had them email back and be like, oh my God, I read your books?

Lisa: No, actually.

Mindy: I wonder, again, if that is symptomatic of people that are behind the scenes not being able to read the fiction because it's just too frustrating for them. 

Lisa: Yes. I mean I've had people say, oh, I was a detective for however many years and I really love that you got this right. Never everything. But it's always like, oh, you got this one thing, right. And then I actually had a lovely woman email me a couple months ago and say, oh my God, you got this Gun positioning horribly wrong. And I was a detective for 20 years. I hate to see this because they only do it in the movies. And I wrote her back. And I was like, Hey, would you be willing to be a consultant for me for all future books? Can I hire you? And you can read them before they go to print. And she was like, oh yeah! I'm really looking forward to that. I think that's gonna be a lot of fun. 

Mindy: That is lovely. And I do think that weapons are difficult to write if you aren't intimately familiar with them. My boyfriend is a former Marine and he's like - I just can't even consider weaponry when I watch a movie or a show, it's just wrong. 

Lisa: My husband is a former Marine as well and he will stop the show that we're watching in mid show and be like they would never use this type of weapon. I always get the gun stuff right because of him. But in this case it was like the way that the detective was holding the gun was an issue which was something I hadn't given as much thought to because I'm usually so consumed with getting the actual weapons correct. 

Mindy: As a writer, I rely on my boyfriend obviously whenever there's a weapon involved because mine does the same thing. He'll stop it and be like this is why this is wrong. And I actually enjoy that because now I won't make that mistake. Right?

Lisa: Right. Absolutely. 

Mindy: We were watching something and I don't remember what it was. It was a good show. It was a good movie. But the detective, they were like sweeping a building. It was dark and so they had their flashlight and their gun. He was like well the way she's holding her hands, the light isn't leading the gun. It's the other way around, the gun is leading the light. So she won't see what she needs to shoot. Unless you are lucky enough to have a former Marine by your side it is difficult to get right. 

I actually co author under a pen name with a few of my friends. I was going through something one of my friends had written that a character had a weapon and she wrote that they “cocked the trigger,” and I was like, okay, no. You're not allowed to write weapons anymore. Leave it blank and write -  Mindy, write the weapon. And I'm like that's what we're gonna do from now on. I actually really enjoy co-authoring because I have my strengths and my friends have theirs and we end up having a lot of fun bouncing off of each other. 

Lisa: That is really cool. That's kind of on my bucket list would be to co-author with someone because I've never done that. 

Mindy: I really enjoy it, I have to say. So I want to talk about, I was looking for example, at your Amazon reviews. Just looking at the first book - you have over 6000 reviews. That's crazy. 

Lisa: It is amazing. Thank you to everyone who has left reviews. 

Mindy: Absolutely, that is a blessing. Because for people that don't know, the way the Amazon algorithm works is that if people are not only buying your book or viewing your book, but leaving reviews is a huge part of visibility and getting recommendations. If you enjoyed this, you would also like…  Those reviews really matter in a really big way. So are you just fortunate enough to have a very interactive fan base that they do this or do you have any actions that you take? Like encouraging people to leave reviews? 

Lisa: I wish that I had some kind of tip that I could give other writers, but it's all the fans, I mean they're fabulous, they're so engaged, it's astounding to me. I have a very, very active Facebook page and Instagram and Twitter and it's mostly because these fans and readers are there every day, you know. They started to feel like families, the ones that have been with me since my first book and those people, I'll drop their names in as character names just as a little surprise for them because every day they show up for me. They're just super, super, super engaged. I say that they're the best fans in the world and I really, really believe that. 

Mindy: You've got read through. It's very obvious. You even have a spike where your middle books have even more reviews. It wasn't like people just read the first book and got excited and read two or three. No, you've got even 7000 reviews On your 11th book. 

Lisa: Yes, it's so strange and I thought for sure the readership would fall off after so many books, because especially nowadays when so many demands are being made on our attention in general, entertainment wise and just with life. I would think it would be harder to keep up with a series. No, they're there for every single book, they're more invested with each book. The readership just keeps growing. Like I said, I wish I had some, you know, magic trick, I could tell other writers, but I really don't, I just have the most awesome fans in the world.

Mindy: That is wonderful. And I think it provides motivation for you as well, because I know when I first started out having a Twitter, I mean Facebook that was about all that existed when I first started out, but you know, you would post something and nobody would respond. Like they're my followers and they were all family members, you know, it's just really hard to be enthusiastic about social media yourself when you're just kind of shouting into a void. But I've been fortunate enough to build up a fan base and so if I post something, I will get a response from someone. Like somebody will like it or you know interact with it in some way, so that you get a reward yourself for being there and showing up. I can't imagine what a motivator that must be for you. 

Lisa: It's really amazing. And the best part for me is that I'm usually struggling through a book, you know With every book, I feel like there comes this low point where I'm just like, oh no, you know, this book is terrible, I'm going to disappoint all of my fans, I should just give up writing, I wasn't cut out for this. You know, you have this spiral of insecurity. I'll take a break and I'll check my notifications - never fails. There will be some wonderful message or email or tweet or DM from a fan saying, oh I just finished a book whatever number and it was fabulous and here's what I loved about it and here's what I love about Josie. If they listen to this, they'll know what I'm talking about. I will say, oh my God, thank you for that. Made my day. This is the lift that I needed. This is a little push that I needed to get past the lull. So it is really a gift and very useful. 

Mindy: It is kind of amazing, how when you are having a down day you do get those tweets, or those DMs or the emails that are like, hey, your book meant a lot to me or this had an impact on me. It is a lovely reminder that this is why you're doing it actually, it's because you want to reach people and influence people's lives. 

Lisa: Absolutely. 

Mindy: I think too, having a readership like that like you said also presents its own intimidation. Because like you were saying, you know, you have thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people that are going to be reading this book and you know that you are no longer writing for yourself or for a smaller circle. Like this is this is going to go out there and be under Christmas trees this year and have this presence. That has to be intimidating while you're writing.

Lisa: It’s very, very intimidating and the biggest thing for me is that these readers have been there for me, they've been there with me on this journey through every word, every up every down. And my biggest fear is disappointing them. I don't want to disappoint them with a terrible book. 

Mindy: And I think too, you end up in a situation where you have these people that care so much and are heavily emotionally invested in your fictional characters. You have to take that into consideration as you are writing them. 

Lisa: Oh definitely. So there's always a conversation with the editor with every book, how far are we going to go with jeopardizing certain characters? what are the readers going to accept and what will they find unacceptable? And are we doing this for a good reason to move the series narrative forward? Or is this just gratuitous? So that is something that we always talk about with every book. That

Mindy: That makes perfect sense. I have to say that I am rather well known for killing off very much loved characters. And this is why I don't know that I could ever write a long term series because I do like taking that gratuitous step. Obviously it is a lovely place to be. So, I might have to reconsider some of my approaches 

Lisa: I did kill off a series regular. I was so nervous about it. And I mean, believe me, the readers were very upset. They were like, I'm so upset, I'm crying, but I understand it's like, oh thank God. 

Mindy: Your characters can't be protected eternally simply because they are loved. It takes any sort of risk out of the plot. 

Lisa: Yes. 

Mindy: So if you haven't read any of Lisa's series, it's the Detective Josie Quinn series. The first one if you need to get started is called Vanishing Girls. And if you're looking for Christmas ideas for a Lisa fan, a Josie Quinn fan, The 13th book, The Drowning Girls comes out December 10. Last thing, why don't you let them know where they can find your books and if you have a particular indie bookseller that you would like for them to order from, that would be great to note. And then also where listeners can find you online. 

Lisa: If you're looking for a list of retailers, I always tell people, just go to my website, it's www.lisaregan.com My favorite indie bookstore is the Town Center Bookstore in Collegeville, Pennsylvania. That's my local indie bookstore. Again, if you want to find me on social media, you can start right at my website and I always tell people if you're on Facebook, come on over and like my Facebook page, even if you don't read my books. I give away lots of stuff and we also give away a lot of books by other authors. Even if you don't read my books, you're going to be over there, you'll get to participate in a lot of fun giveaways and you'll get to see pictures of my dog which everybody loves.

Mindy: That's always a bonus. 

Mindy: Writer Writer Pants on Fire is produced by Mindy McGinnis. Music by Jack Korbel. Don't forget to check out the blog for additional interviews, writing advice and publication tips at Writer Writer Pants on Fire dot com. If the blog or podcast have been helpful to you or if you just enjoy listening, please consider donating. Visit Writer Writer Pants on Fire dot com and click “support the blog and podcast” in the sidebar.

Laurell K. Hamilton On Starting A New Series

Mindy: Welcome to Writer Writer Pants on Fire, where authors talk about things that never happened to people who don't exist. We also cover craft, the agent hunt, query trenches, publishing, industry, marketing and more. I'm your host, Mindy McGinnis. You can check out my books and social media at mindymcginnis dot com and make sure to visit the Writer Writer Pants on Fire blog for additional interviews, query critiques and more as well as full transcriptions of each podcast episode. at WriterWriterPants on Fire.com. And don’t forget to check out the Writer, Writer, Pants on Fire Facebook page. Give me feedback, suggest topics you’d like to hear discussed, and let me know if there is someone you’d love to see a a guest.

Ad: Peyton Sinclair wants nothing more than to escape her life as a diner waitress and attend the best culinary school in the country. Top Teen Chef - Food TV's new show that pairs reality TV drama with a fast paced culinary competition is more than just her ticket out of her small north Florida town - it's a once in a lifetime chance to make her dreams come true. And Peyton is determined to prove to herself and the world that where you're born does not determine where you can go. However, once on the show, Peyton quickly discovers that there is more to the competition than just a well seasoned dish. As things start to heat up on and off set, Peyton will have to prove to the judges that she deserves to win while trying to untangle what is real and what's scripted in order to keep her dreams off the chopping block. Where There's A Whisk by Sarah J. Schmitt releases October 12.

Mindy: We’re here with Laurell K. Hamilton, the best selling author of gosh, let's see how many books at this point? 

Laurell: Well, I'm writing my 41st, so 40 novels.

Mindy: Wow, that is, that is seriously impressive. I'm on 12 and that feels good. So I can't imagine 40. 

Laurell: My goal is to have the same amount in one series that the Nero Wolfe books by Rex Stout, which is 70 something. 

Mindy: Your newest series is coming out for the first time in 20 years - a new series, which begins with A Terrible Fall of Angels, is the title of the first one. It deals with angels and demons and angelology, which just draws me in immediately because I am a huge fan of angelology and just kind of got pulled into that when I was in college actually. So if you'd like to talk a little bit about the new series and about the new book, A Terrible Fall of Angels.

Laurell: A Terrible Fall of Angels is set in modern America. It's all over the world. But this book is set in America. The main character is detective Zaniel Havelock who is a member of the metaphysical coordination unit, also known as the Heaven and Hell squad. If you have a crime that has angelic or demonic overtones, that's who you want to call. Especially Daniel because Daniel is an angel speaker. He was trained at the College of Angels to be able to communicate with the highest order of angels, not everybody can train up with the highest order of angels and survive intact. He was one of their shining stars as a pupil, but something tragic happened and he felt he could no longer serve there. He left at age 20. And he lived there since he was seven. It's like a cloistered order. So he left. He could speak with angels and do all sorts of wonderful mystical things. But he'd never seen a computer, didn't know how to fill out a job application. 

So six ft three walks past a recruiter station for the Army and the recruiter goes, young man, may I speak with you? So he joined the Army, did a tour there and now he is a police detective, but he can still speak with angels because this is a world where everyone knows that heaven and hell have a treaty. They have agreed not to do Armageddon and destroy the world. But there are rules, how many demons can come up, how much tormenting can they do. There are ways both sides can break the treaty, but it's primarily on hell's shoulders, what will break the treaty and what will not. And if the treaty is broken, then literally the end of the world happens. So the metaphysical coordination unit and other units like it around the world helped keep this from happening. But Zaniel was the only angel speaker to be fully trained and to leave voluntarily to go out in the larger world. 

That old saying you don't know you're in a cult until you leave? Well, Zaniel didn't realize that the College of angels really is a cult, or that's how other people see it. There's been a tell all documentary on people trying to get their Children back. It's very interesting to have him be my eyes on the world. One of the other detectives, she says - you say things like you're in all old fogey, like you should be somebody's grandpa. And he says, well, I was raised with people saying things like that. Because working with the angels lengthens your life. So some of the people teaching have been up there for a very long time and nobody talks about it. Nobody talks about it much at the school. You're not supposed to talk about it outside the school that dealing with the angels and living at the College of Angels actually lengthens your lifetime a great deal. If you look at the old testament, you have several people that are living over 100 - that's mentioned more than once. 

Mindy: And so what brought you to this idea of working specifically with angels and demons? Because you've obviously worked in those areas before in the realm of the paranormal and the urban fantastical elements. Why this time angels and demons specifically? 

Laurell: You know, I've been asked that and I don't have a good answer because literally the idea for this book - I was, to my knowledge, I was not reading, watching or studying on angels. I had like one book, one or two books on it, but it wasn't an area of study. I'm not into angelology, I wasn't raised Christian or any of the other religions of the book. I really didn't have a background in it. But suddenly out of nowhere, almost 10 years ago a line came to me - there were angel feathers in the dead woman's bed. I thought, wow, that's a great first line. So I wrote it down on a sticky note and I put it up on my wall in my office. And what I find is that if I put something in a note and put it on a piece of paper and I put it in a file, if I don't periodically go through the files, I forget about it. But if I put it up on my wall where I pass by it every day -  if I pass by too much, I don't see it anymore. So you have to move it around a little to make sure every once in a while that it refreshes. 

But this one I kept coming back to, I thought it was a short story. In 2014, I was still actively writing the Merry Gentry series and the Anita Blake series. But this idea wouldn't leave me alone. So I thought you know what, I'll sit down, I'll write it. Maybe it's a short story I can get out of my mind and the creative logjam will be undone. I almost wrote the first chapter At one setting and I thought this is a book, not only this is a book of a series and I think I cannot do three series. I want to, but I cannot do it. Please. 

So I put it in a file and then I wrote the ninth Merry Gentry book, A Shiver of Light. And then in 2020 I picked it back up. I thought I'm finally ready. I've done Suckerpunch, which was the 27th Anita Blake novel, and finished it up. Now I can go to it. And then 2020 happened. And I've never had a book so interrupted partly because of everything that was happening in the world, partly because I sent Suckerpunch off to be edited just as lockdown happened. And my editor and everybody at my publishing house was barred from their building. Everything changed, the edits took longer. 

So it interrupted the book and I had to put it aside for A Terrible Fall of Angels. And then I went back to it and then I had this great idea because one of things all the fans told me is one of things that was helping them through lockdown was reading my books, giving them a refuge. It gave them a place to be when they couldn't leave where they were. I contacted my editor and said, can I do an extra book, like a small book like Micah or Jason? She says, well can you? Can you do that and then meet your other deadlines? I suppose I think I can, that's how we got Rafael. Unfortunately, or fortunately Rafael ended up being long enough, it could have been a main book. It was not short like Jason and Micah , the way I was hoping it would be, I loved Rafael, I love the world building with the where rats and Rafael has been a character from the beginning. He deserved a bigger book. It was great. But again, delays. Went back to A Terrible Fall of Angels then had to stop for edits on Rafael finally sat down with it. The world is still in chaos. 

And I believe that all the stops and starts and all the delays helped make this book a much lighter book. It's a dark book. I mean, you have demons and you fight demons and everything, but you also have the angels and the angels are very present and positive magic, not just the angels, but positive magic. In Wiccan you have spirit guides and you have totems and you have all this positive spiritual help that is around all of us. And it's this idea that we are not alone. We are not isolated. There's help at hand and that you know, the deity, the universe, they really do want us to be happy and to feel positive and to be uplifted instead of down with this heaviness that we all seem to be fighting against lightly. 

Mindy: Very, very true. I know that a lot of writers really struggled over Covid. I think I discovered that when I am moving out in the world and interacting with people, I'm drawing energy from them. And when I come back to sit down, that energy is coming back out in the form of my writing. And when I couldn't go out and move among people and draw energy, I would sit down in front of my laptop already drained, unable to produce something. Motivation wasn't necessarily a problem. I would just literally sit down and be like, I am too tired to do this. 

Laurell: I think that a lot of us, even those of the introverts, have found that that little exchange of just going out and doing errands and exchanging with real people really is more of a social exchange than we thought it was. I didn't have any trouble writing at the beginning. But then I had just finished like I said about 27 and I brought book 28 and this is a series I've been writing for for decades. So that helped. But then in writing A Terrible Fall of Angels, you know, the impetus of the deadline helped light a fire under me. And also exploring a new world was both very much harder than I remembered it, and also energizing at the same time that it's hard and I was doing pretty well. I was giving people extra stories and I wanted to do that. I was reaching out to people through my writing. And I also edited my first anthology during all of this Fantastic Hope with my co editor, William McCaskey. And you know, there's an original Anita Blake story in it and there's a lot of great stories and boy did we need an anthology of hopeful stories. 

And then it's now. Now I'm having more trouble. I'm writing the next Anita Blake novel, book 29. I've never had so much trouble writing Anita in my entire life. I thought we'd be out by now. You know, I thought we'd be back to some semblance of normality and now I am drained, now because all the things I normally do between books I haven't been able to do. I usually go and visit certain friends that I haven't been able to because of where they are. I go to the ocean and I was able to go briefly. But then well where I was, it was like - get out before the airport's closed! It wasn't that bad. It felt that bad. It felt that kind of urgency. As much as I love my house, my office and my beautiful garden and yard. And may I just say the garden and the water garden has been a godsend because I'm beginning to understand why people had walled gardens and spent some time with it. Because most people for most of history. If you traveled 20 miles away from home, that was a long way. Your garden really was a refuge, a place where you could go and relax. 

Hamilton.png

Mindy: Yes. And I've always felt that way about my own, my own home. I live in Ohio. I live in the middle of nowhere. Just put a deck on before Covid hit. Have a good place for a hammock and I have a pond and I have all these wonderful little nooks and crannies all around my property where I can kind of go to recharge. But when I can't leave my property, it starts to all look the same and feel, like you were saying, when you walk past something that you see every day you don't see it anymore. I love my home. I love where I'm from. I love living in the middle of nowhere. But I had already experienced true isolation by choice. And when it’s enforced isolation... I haven't been on a plane since March of 2020. It's hard. I'm used to traveling a lot, traveling for school visits and library visits and talks and speeches and keynotes and that's, that's all gone. And that has really shown me how much of an extrovert I actually am.

Laurell: Under normal circumstances for A Terrible Fall of Angels, I would have been traveling all across the country.  But I made the choice. They didn't let me, but I made the choice for, I love my fans. They are so devoted. I've had people come straight from the hospital after abdominal surgery, one woman was in labor and she insisted on coming and oh my God, I have fans that I know are immunocompromised. I have fans that I know are ill. I'm not going to tempt them. I am not going to tempt them to a large group gathering under these circumstances. I just made the call for safety and caution for everybody that I would meet. Not just for me. 

We tried to go to theaters as much as we can because I'm afraid they're not going to make it. And I love going to the movie theater, the whole shebang. I love getting popcorn and soda and sitting there in the space. I don't care how big my big screen is. Just like we try to, you know, get out and support our local restaurants. We were doing take away during lockdown. 

Mindy: I had a book come out right at the beginning of March in 2020 and I was supposed to be gone the entire month of March, and like half of April I was not going to be home and of course that all got canceled. Good reason. We didn't really know what all was going on at the beginning. It was just like having your candle blown out. I was like, oh. I came home and kind of tried to launch a book from home, which it did fine. I think the reading has really come back. I think a lot of people have rediscovered reading. A lot of people that I know are usually big readers actually had trouble reading during COVID. 

Laurell: I did too. I have trouble reading for a lot of reasons. If I'm in the middle of writing a book or editing. Oh my God, if I'm editing a book, that's where I'm at, I can't read because I edit and everybody's books I'm going well that I'd have done that differently. I can't get out of my editor mode to be able to read. If I'm writing a book, I have to be careful because I would rather read what I'm writing. So it's hard to settle, or I don't want to get up from my computer and read exactly the same kind of thing I'm writing. Every book I write pretty much is genuinely a mystery, genuinely horror, genuinely fantasy. It is genuinely magic. It is genuinely all these things. I write all my favorite genres. So it's like, what, what's left to read? I'm trying to get back to finding fantasy that is different enough from what I write that I can read it without feeling like it's a busman's holiday. 

Ad: Are you bored of TV? Like drugs but can't afford them? Still paying alimony? Read How to See A Man About A Dog: Collected Writings. It's surreal. It's strange. It's How to See A Man About A Dog by Samuel Knox. Get your dose of surreal prose and poetry with this dark comedy collection. How to See A Man About A Dog E book is available on Kindle and Kindle Unlimited. Print copies are available on Amazon, Aibirs, and more. How to See A Man About A Dog by Samuel Knox

Mindy: I have a Dalmatian who is very high maintenance and I love him very much. But he has to have a run every morning. 

Laurell: Gus.

Mindy: Yes, Mr. Gus. I never used to be a runner. I started running during the shutdown because I knew it would get bad if I didn't. 

Laurell: Congratulations. 

Mindy: Thank you. It was a smart move. It was a good move. I was lucky enough to live isolated so I can and it's not a problem for anyone. 

Laurell: I've wanted a Dalmatian since I was 12. I love the Disney cartoon, but it is so much better in the book. I read Dodie Smith's 101 Dalmatians 20 plus times. I'm not joking in the summer, one summer when I was 12. I wanted a Dalmatian from that time on. But I did my research. I'm not a runner. I'm not a jogger and it's over 100 degrees here and we're on pavement. It's too hot for the dog to run on. I am not a good owner for a Dalmatian. I know that I have to accept that the dog would be miserable. And in the right hands. I believe every breed in the right hands and the right family is a great dog. So many people, they treat the choice of a family member that is going to be with you, hopefully for at least 15 years, they treat it with less concern, less research, less thought than they do picking out an outfit. 

Mindy: It's pretty, I want the pretty one. 

Laurell: Yeah, I know. All puppies are cute. 

Mindy: Oh, they are, They're all adorable. I had done the research too and I had decided I did not want a Dalmatian. Well, I didn't even want a puppy. I was like, I'm adopting an adult from the pound. All my dogs have been pound dogs before. Well, this was during Covid and everybody had gone and adopted a dog and literally the only dogs left were like, has killed will kill again. Like there was nobody else. And I actually tried, I brought a dog home and one of my cats attempted to jump out of a closed second story window. It was just like, no, I'm, I'm just doing it. I'm leaving here any way I can. 

And then my sister was, she was buying pigs from a farm family in the next county over. And they were like, we also have free kittens and Dalmatian puppies. My sister sent me pictures of the puppies and I was like, oh God, I don't think I can do it. I got him at eight weeks and we started running at eight weeks and he is so dang smart. When we're running he runs to my right side and when a car comes, he breaks his stride and goes single file behind me and then comes around and goes up to the right and like never clips my heels. Never, I don't have to break stride at all.

Laurell: Wow, that's impressive. He's so smart. I always say wonderful things about dogs. So I love my Japanese chins but they were never really jogging companions. I keep thinking maybe adopting an older Dalmatian. But we have small dogs and we have cats and some Dalmatians can have a very high prey drive. We rescued one of our cats when she was at least six and the vet thinks she may have been 10. So she's getting up there and I'm not going to bring anything into the house that could be potentially dangerous for her. She's a grizzly bear. Griselda is her name but she has a really deep throaty purr. Had she not answered to her name, I wanted to name her Eartha Kitty. She has this great throaty torch singer purr. But she answered to her name. 

Mindy: Yeah, I mean if you are still interested in a Dalmatian at some point, I can tell you that Mr. Gus is very laid back. Yesterday I watched him run down like a bird that wasn't quite flying yet and it couldn't take off. But then it's like he caught up to it. He was just like mom, there's a thing over here, he was not going to put it in his mouth. Hey mom! I feel like there's no violence in this animal. There's none. 

Laurell: You just never know though. Prey drive is a natural thing. You can work around it and train around it. But how much prey driving an animal has? That's natural. So you lucked out.

Mindy: Yep, I did. He is a perfect boy and he knows it. He's looking at me right now when I say the phrase perfect boy, he's just like, yep, that's me. 

Laurell: Well you and Gus are meant for each other. Now, he's been raised with you not traveling. It's going to be really hard on him. 

Mindy: It's gonna be super, super hard. I was actually gone two weekends ago. I had a ComicCon and then this past weekend I spoke at a library conference. So I was gone the past two weekends and he was devastated. But he stays with my mom, he has a second home, he has 2nd and 3rd homes actually, so he does okay. Last thing, why don't you let listeners know where they can find you online and where they can find the book A Terrible Fall of Angels?

Laurell: Well, A Terrible Fall of Angels is available pretty much everywhere. My website Laurell K Hamilton dot com and I am Official underscore K Hamilton for Instagram. Twitter, I’m L K Hamilton, L. K. H. Underscore official is also for Tiktok, I'm pretty active online. With the lockdown, everything online is now part of the job. It's like the business has changed and I really think this is going to be a permanent change. A Terrible Fall of Angels is out everywhere bookstores and online. I'm getting a lot of love from fans and new fans and a lot of people said they were intimidated because they Anita Blake series was like 28 novels so long, so big. They're saying, oh, thank you for starting a new one. It's like, okay, trust me, the water is fine, come on in. 

Mindy: Writer Writer Pants on Fire is produced by Mindy McGinnis. Music by Jack Korbel. Don't forget to check out the blog for additional interviews, writing advice and publication tips at Writer Writer Pants on Fire dot com. If the blog or podcast have been helpful to you or if you just enjoy listening, please consider donating. Visit Writer Writer Pants on Fire dot com and click “support the blog and podcast” in the sidebar.