Mindy: Welcome to Writer Writer Pants on Fire, where authors talk about things that never happened to people who don't exist. We also cover craft, the agent hunt, query trenches, publishing, industry, marketing and more. I'm your host, Mindy McGinnis. You can check out my books and social media at mindymcginnis dot com and make sure to visit the Writer Writer Pants on Fire blog for additional interviews, query critiques and more as well as full transcriptions of each podcast episode. at WriterWriterPants on Fire.com. And don’t forget to check out the Writer, Writer, Pants on Fire Facebook page. Give me feedback, suggest topics you’d like to hear discussed, and let me know if there is someone you’d love to see a a guest.
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Mindy: I'm here with Meg Tilly, the Oscar nominated and Golden Globe award winning actress who has transferred her talents over into the world of publishing. Her newest book, The Runaway Heiress, releases on July 27th. And it's really kind of a fun mix of really intense thriller elements, but along with a romance and it's set in the backdrop of Hollywood. And reading it, my feeling was, it kind of felt like a Sleeping with the Enemy meets Hollywood kind of feel.
Meg: I’m so excited you read the book? So I'm just sitting here grinning at the computer screen and thinking, oh my gosh, she read the book! Oh she read the book!, somebody's read my book!
Mindy: Yeah, I know the feeling.
Meg: I'm so happy that you described it that way. Thank you.
Mindy: Oh you're welcome. So if you'd like to tell our listeners a little bit more about the book and how it breaks out what the plot is.
Meg: What happened is I had done the Solace Island series and in the third book of the Solace Island series which was Hidden Cove, there was a character named Mary Browning. And when my readers had finished that book they kept writing to me and saying what happened to Mary? Mary needs a book! Can you tell us what happened to Mary? And I thought well that's pretty impossible because Mary Browning isn't her real name. And then she's on the run again. So she had to change her name again. So how could you possibly - not you, me - write a book with somebody who has three names?
But I somehow figured out a way to do it. And she is an heiress and she's on the run from her abusive husband who's a lieutenant who is determined to do whatever it takes to get Sarah and her inheritance back under his thumb. And so she ends up running out of money near Hollywood. So she has to get a new name, fake ID. And she lands a job as personal assistant to Hollywood's Golden Boy movie director. And so then the question is - is she finally safe in this exclusive money enclave of Mulholland Drive - which I based the character and the home on someone quite famous that I knew. So then you don't know if she's safe or if this in fact has thrust Mick into the crosshairs of the deadly danger that stalks her. That's sort of what it is. And then you've got their relationship, but you've got this really (hopefully) strong thriller element feeling of a net tightening closer and closer and closer. And I thought it was an impossible task and I worked really, really hard on it. But I'm really pleased with the way it turned out, and I'm very grateful to my editors and my publishing house for just how they helped me make it even better.
Mindy: You have this opportunity to write, it's not new to you, as you were saying, you had a series before this. So that initial thrust when you began writing novels, was this something that you had always wanted to do? Had you dabbled with it? Obviously you've been acting for quite a long time. At what point were you like, I think I'm going to try being a novelist?
Meg: I didn't know I was going to be a novelist. It happened to me by accident. It started when I was 30 when I was pregnant with my youngest child. I had started having early spotting, early labor, so I had to go to bed rest. I had written a little short film that I was going to shoot because the cinematographer had told me - you're a director, I see the way you work, you see the whole story. If you write a short film, I'll shoot it and I'll get crew and equipment for you. So I wrote a short film and was going to be shooting it when this happened. And so I couldn't shoot it because I had to be confined to bed rest for several months. And so I thought, what I'll do is I’ll write a script, then I'll have it so that when I have the baby then I could shoot the short. If I take it to festivals, people will say, oh, this is good. If you have a film you want to do, we'd be interested in seeing, I'd say, well I do have a script right here.
It started off like that, but then instead it just became short stories or actually just memory snippets of my childhood that had kind of leapt to the forefront. And so that's how I started writing these short stories. It wouldn't come out as a screenplay, it came out of short stories and it was a relief to write that. I was very famous at the time and just to put it out on the page. But I never thought I was a writer. I thought writing was for quote smart people. Writing was for people who had college degrees, but these memories needed to be written. That's how I wrote my first book. I was helped by Charlotte Sheedy who was a literary agent who had read my first pieces. I didn't know if they were any good, I didn't know what to do. And she said - They're beautiful short stories, you need 100 pages in a short story collection. So I did 100 pages and then she said, you need 200 pages because these aren't short stories, it's all about the same family - big surprise - so you need 200 pages for a novel.
That became my first novel and it was Singing Songs with Dutton that was an imprint of Penguin. And it's weird because throughout my career I've had 10 books published. The majority of them have been with one imprint or another of the Penguin and now Penguin, Random House umbrella. I've had one with St. Martin's press and some with Canadian publishers here. But it's quite astonishing to me. And now, finally, after my fifth book, which was published by publishers, I thought, oh my gosh, I think I am a writer! Like a real writer, but it took that long to be like, oh no, I just had something to say, oh, I just had something else to say. Even though I sat down at my desk every day, you know, minimum five days a week. And I have a multitude of manuscripts and short stories that will never see the light of day, while I learned from my first novel to my second. For around 10 years, you know, I went to writing groups, weekly writing groups, and workshops. I needed to learn how to write fiction.
Mindy: I think probably anyone listening to this, that is also a writer, still feels the same way. And also questions whether they too are writers, that's the way it works. I can relate even though I am a writer, I have 10 books out.
Meg: We’re like twins!
Mindy: Yeah, mine are with Harper Collins. Every day that I do sit down to write every time, there's fear.
Meg: You’re writing and your characters are doing and you're like, what! If I can't corral all these kittens into shape - You! No! One's going off here, and you're like, no, no, no, no, that's not the plan. That wasn't the plan. Well, I can't let you just run away and get run over by a truck. And then by the time you come back the others are scampering off. So what are you working on now, Mindy?
Mindy: I am actually in a little bit of a groove. I'm waiting to start something new. My next book comes out March 15 of 2022, so that's in the can.
Meg: What’s the title?
Mindy: It's called, The Last Laugh. It's the second in a series.
Meg: Good name.
Mindy: Oh, thank you. It's the second in a series. The first is called The Initial Insult and they’re like updated Edgar Allan Poe murder mystery elements set in Appalachia.
Meg: Wow. See, I'm so crazy. I'm a writer. So I know how things get, but I'm like, wow, how did you come up with that? And what a cool setting. And you know, the first thing I think is so, I could never write that. You know, like every time it's like, you pick up your books and you're like, wow! Well, I was really lucky this time because I really loved this book. But right, I don't know how I did it.
Mindy: You're like, I got away with it again. Never fails to as you're saying feel like something that maybe another part of you did. A part of you is really smart and did a good job, but it's certainly not you.
Meg: And you're just praying that they show up to the party the next time.
Mindy: Yeah, exactly. And I could relate to - you say something like, oh, I could never write that. I have felt that way so many times. I'll have the idea, I'll have it put together, I'll pitch it and they’ll say yes, do it and I'm like, okay, but... okay.
Meg: And or have you ever had, like, I'm working on a manuscript now where I had decided because of the pandemic, because I do the romantic suspense with like the strong thriller aspect, I had the idea that - the pandemic - I just don't want anything scary. I don't want any dead bodies. I don't want anything. And this one, the manuscript is turning out -- what the heck happened here? Because it's not just a light, straightforward, happy feel-good. It's just my writing body just wasn't able to, it's just like, nope, nope - if anything is going to be a tiny bit darker.
Mindy: Yeah, my most recent book that is out, part of the Edgar Allan Poe series, is called The Initial Insult and it deals with an epidemic, like a flu virus epidemic. And there is an element of - I'm from the midwest, what we would call a white trash zoo. Which is just like an irresponsible, exotic animal owner. And I wrote this book in 2018 and then the Tiger King came out, Covid hit. Everyone is like, oh my God, how did you write this book so fast? And I'm like, No I wrote it in 2018! I'm like, it makes it much easier to pitch because it’s a complicated book and I'm like, it's Tiger King meets Edgar Allan Poel with Covid, but a stomach flu and they're like, oh!
Meg: I couldn’t do that. That's the one thing I can't do is that, where you can just succinctly get it down and distill it down. That was great.
Mindy: Mash ups are a talent of mine. I love movies, I love books and pop culture so much and I can tie things together because, like, when I was reading The Runaway Heiress, and I was like, oh, this is great, this is Sleeping with the Enemy in Hollywood. I don't know, my mind just works that way with the puzzle pieces, it's wonderful. But as I'm getting older and publishing kind of remains younger, some of my references they're not working because they might not get my movie comparison from 1981.
Meg: I know. I haven't seen Sleeping with the Enemy, but my mind is spinning ilke, oh, I'm gonna check and see what that is now!
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Mindy: So, coming back to Hollywood and your Hollywood experience, did you intend, like from the beginning with this book where you like, I know I'm going to use my background and my insider knowledge to write this or like you're saying, did Sarah just end up in California and you were like, oh good. Now she's in Hollywood and I can do this.
Meg: I knew she needed to be somewhere other than Solace island because the Solace Island series ended and she was on the run. So obviously she couldn't be on the run and stayed on the little small gulf island. And then I was like, well, who would the guy be and I have a lot of false starts until I find the guy where I'm like, oh no, this chemistry is good. So I actually had one where she was working and it was, I can't remember where it was somewhere in the Midwest and it was a guy who was an executive who sold automobile parts. You know, there's like a big business with that and I went down that road and I'm like, this just doesn't feel right. I mean their interaction didn't feel right for her. Kind of like The Dating Game which is again dating myself or whatever.
Sometimes more with one book than another, I start with the woman and the woman's voice and one guy and another and another and different professions. So actually in Cliff’s Edge, it's the second one of Solace Island, had also an actor who was a friend with the guy who was a security expert on the first one. So it's like I try on different people and I don't know until they actually, I get the sense of the guy. So I've written a scene with Mick just seeing it like who is he? And I'd written where she first meets him and comes to the door. So that scene has totally, totally been rewritten a bunch of times and once it feels right in my skin that I'm like, aaah. And I go forward, I just try on different people until the guy feels right and the situation feels right, and I'm like, oh, oh yes, that's wonderful.
Mindy: I don't do much plotting myself. I also just wait and see what happens and you know, typically the right thing happens and the story can keep going and it feels really organic. So I think it's really interesting to hear you say that you operate in the same way. Do you think that that kind of free floating form approach - Do you think that has roots in your acting background?
Meg: For sure. In the way that I act, the way that I was trained with Peggy Fury at The Loft Studio, I couldn't go forward until it felt right in the gut. So I would have to do all the background on the person - where they came from, what the weather is like outside. Are they coming outside, inside or from another room? What have they been thinking right before? Or what have they just gone through? What are they wearing? What did they have for breakfast or lunch or what is their relationship with all the other people when you come into the scene? Are they strangers? Are the people, you know what is the past history? So all of those questions, but for me it's like, if I can't walk in the door with them, then I'm scrambling and I'm faking it and to me, the joy of it is feeling it and just walking in as a person and seeing the world through their eyes. That's the privilege of acting or writing is to be in the skin.
So, for me, I mean, some authors have a different way of working and they're able to just pound it out. And I have pounded out the series I've started now. I pounded out 25 pages of who they are, what's going to happen. The arc of the thing. It's totally changed from the first book, totally changed everything. There's some things that I can use, but even when I pound it out, it doesn't happen that way because you're operating without all the information that you obtain as you write and dive deeper in and understand them more. It's really a kind of for me, a very organic thing, the unhappy part about it is I have to rewrite a lot because something will show up part way through, halfway through, three quarters way through, two chapters in and then I have to go back and rewrite and put little plants, and little bits.
I wish I was the kind of author who just ran full tilt down the hill, arms outstretched and tumble where I may. So my writing process is slower. I'm always going back and rewriting and then going forward and then something shows up and I have to go back and weave it in and change stuff so that it flows smoothly. Luckily I don't have to slam a lot of things out because I'm not career building. I'm writing for the sheer pleasure of writing it, although it's hard work and sometimes it's not pleasurable at all, but also for sharing my story with my readers in the world. That's the joy for me. And that's lucky because it takes me a little while to get each book out.
Mindy: I love what you're saying about drawing that line between acting and you having to know the person before you can be the person and then pulling that into writing. I feel similarly and I do operate very organically. My trick that helps me avoid any rewriting is that I don't really put things down on paper until I know the characters fairly well. So I just kind of have it all mentally in a cloud and I just haven't downloaded it yet. I'm figuring them out as I think. So I can do Like 2-3 months of pre writing, just in my head. So I liked what you were saying earlier too about the kittens going to do whatever it is they want. I was running this morning and I need to begin a new book - like today. But I was running this morning and I always really agonize over opening lines and I was running and I had an opening line, I'm like okay, that's good. And I know who the narrator is and in my mind, you know, there's going to be the unlikely duo, right? The Good Girl is my opening narrator and she just kept saying things in her head that weren't that nice. Like she wasn't that girl. Outwardly she was. But inwardly she was kind of sarcastic and a little bit mean and I was like, oh I okay, I didn't know you were this way, but apparently you are.
Meg: I find when a character starts talking to me, I just start writing because that's their voice and when they have those surprises, it's such a gift. But sometimes it's a pain in the ass because like you said, the kittens right? But it's a tail of a dream. So you're like, I keep it in my head and I turn it - and I do turn things over. Like during the day after I finished my writing, sometimes I'm still in the writing world, even though I'm not. But when I have that, it's like the tail of a dream and I have to grab ahold of it before it dissipates and I forget, like a dream. You know, when you wake up, you're like, oh, I remember that and then by afternoon - I had a really interesting dream and then it's gone. I'm like the kind of person who, if that happens, I need paper! I need paper! And you know, if you have it with you, great - or you have your phone and you can take notes, or it's just gone, like a mouthful of smoke if I don't grab ahold of it. I wish I could keep it in my head and sort it all out for you know, a couple of months and I know other authors who do.
Mindy: I mean, it is a scary approach because I do lose things like there's no doubt about it, I do lose some of that ballast. But what I do is, in particular if I have a wonderful line or a wonderful piece of dialogue, I will write that down right away. I don't lose it because that's very specific. And I find that if I have written down that very specific dialogue or that one line, it has captured a voice, a scene, a feeling, a tone and I can look at that and recall all of the other elements that were built around this. So I just kind of have these anchors that I will toss onto a piece of paper and everything else. I can just kind of let coalesce and organically create a thing.
Meg: Yeah I do that too. Something pops in my head like oh this ties into this which is later then I'll draw it down on a piece of paper or post it. I mean I have files, two sets of files on my screen and then I also have a binder. And I also had, unfortunately, copious amounts of post-it’s from when I'm just you know in another room where this is? That by the time I finish a book, even though I say it every time - this time I'm going to be like those people with those careful files and this and that. I have the files, but it also looks like a bomb exploded.
Mindy: Oh, yes.
Meg: You too?
Mindy: Oh yes. These little Notes to Self things. I write in the margin of other books sometimes. Now are your notes that you write to yourself. If someone else were to come along and look at all of your notes, would they be able to decipher them and know what you meant or is it just for you?
Meg: It depends. Okay, so if I'm doing research about something, then of course there'll be lots of notes about that. Lots of times those notes are points that are going to happen. They tie in this thriller aspect that needs to be touched either before or after. And I'm writing something and I want it or it's night and I'm like, no, you have to go to sleep. I’m like, but I don't want to forget this. Then it might be a paragraph here, three lines here, a sentence here that somebody says, that is key to something there. So it might just be like when you're reading you're just like, oh wow, this is fun. I mean just going on this little roller coaster ride. But believe me, it's like, I’ve got to weave this and I gotta with that and oh wait, okay, Oh really? Alright. And then you go back and you weave it through again and again and again. It's fun I guess. You know, I have friends who like doing puzzles, like 1000 piece puzzles. For me, you know, I don't like that. But in a way, these books are puzzles of pieces of zillions of zillions of little moving parts and when they all come together and it's like a story that somebody can read and enjoy, then you're like, oh my gosh, you know? It just makes you so happy.
Mindy: Oh, it does, it does feel like a small miracle when all those cogs come together and they actually make an engine that works.
Meg: And do you pick up your books, Mindy, and look at them and all of a sudden and just flip it open and be like, where did that come from? I don't read through them, but I pick it up and I might, if I'm having to talk about it or find something to read for a book thing. And it's just like, how did I ever write this?
Mindy: I do that. I'll crack open the book. Like to do a reading or something like you're saying or look for an area, a section to read aloud or share. I’m like - I don't know who wrote this, right? I don't remember doing it. Good job, you! But yeah, it is a bizarre, inexplicable feeling and I feel very similarly and I can't put words to it, but it's like - someone better than me did that. They also live inside me.
Meg: Yeah. That's it.
Mindy: It's a weird experience. Why don't you let listeners know where they can find you online and where they can order The Runaway Heiress?
Meg: I started during the pandemic, a thing called Meg's Cozy Tea Time on Youtube, that my husband talked me into doing and I just did to entertain him because you know, it was just him and me. He really wanted to, he thought it would be a cool thing and I wanted him to know that I listened to him sometimes. We've just got this great community and I sit down and I chat about whatever. People ask me a questions. So I talk about writing and I talk about life and they asked me questions about my old life as an actress and it's fun. So you can find me on Youtube, Meg's Cozy Tea Time, you can find me on Twitter as meggamonstah because I didn't really know what Twitter was and some of the kids on when I did Bomb Girls, the TV show Bomb girls, they're like, no, you have to get on Twitter and I'm like Twitter? I just got my first phone! But so they put me on Twitter and I made up the name meggamonstah because I thought it was funny, because it was so not like me and but it's stuck now. So that's what it is. And on instagram, I‘m Meg Tilly, I think I Meg Tilly Author, I'm not sure. But you can plug it in, you can find it. The Runaway Heiress you can purchase in any store, go independent first and if you can't find it there, then go to uh bigger ones.
Mindy: Writer Writer Pants on Fire is produced by Mindy McGinnis. Music by Jack Korbel. Don't forget to check out the blog for additional interviews, writing advice and publication tips at Writer Writer Pants on Fire dot com. If the blog or podcast have been helpful to you or if you just enjoy listening, please consider donating. Visit Writer Writer Pants on Fire dot com and click “support the blog and podcast” in the sidebar.
