Mindy: Today's guest is Shahla Hebets, founder of Think Media and author of What's Working Now: YOU-centric Marketing. Shahla joined me today to talk about her philosophy of how to reach consumers using you-centric marketing.
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Mindy: You are the author of What's Working Now: YOU-centric Marketing. I wanted to talk a little bit today about your background and how you came about to be in a position to write a book about marketing in the first place.
Shahla: I've been working in the advertising and marketing space for 20 years. I've worked with big brands, Hershey's, Anheuser Busch, Apple, Visa, and what I really discovered in my time is that it's about this sort of shifting customer and the shifting behaviors of the customer. Because of that, because of those sort of ongoing shifts and changes, I started realizing that so often we're focused on the tactic. We're focused on, Oh we need to use paid search or we need to do influencer marketing or whatever the case may be. And the truth of the matter is there is a product and a service for everything. There's just a proliferation of them.
Shahla: Smart brands understand that it's really about the customer and connecting with the customer. That's the only way that you really are going to break through the noise. So that philosophy and that mindset and me just seeing that firsthand led me to say, you know, I need to educate people that we need to do things differently because we're not, back in the day when it wasn't a crowded space and it wasn't packed with similar product, that notion of we've got to do a little differently is really what made me think, I've got to share my experience with others.
Mindy: You talk about similar product, that's something that as a consumer I'm often just overwhelmed by. So for example, I go to buy half a gallon of milk, right? And there is a wall of milk for me to choose from. It's all milk, it's milk. I don't understand as someone that also does marketing of their own product. I'm standing there thinking, how does one type of milk stand out from the other? What makes this milk the milk I'm going to buy?
Shahla: That's exactly the impetus. Right? And that's what every consumer feels in every single market, in every single category. You know, I read something recently that said that if I wanted to go on to Amazon and buy a woman's scarf as a holiday gift, as an example, I would have over 200,000 options of scarves. So your milk, right? Isn't that crazy? So your milk experience is exactly what customers feel every single day. And we get overwhelmed by this sort of seemingly similar products, massive proliferation everywhere. The constant, what about us? What about us? What about us? We're better! And the consumer just tunes it out because we feel like we don't know which one to go with. And I think that's the big miss. Brands think that if they just shout how great they are, that the customer is going to hear that and we can't possibly hear that because everybody shouting that.
Mindy: That's true. It makes sense. No, that makes perfect sense because as someone that obviously is a consumer but also thinks about marketing and how I'm going to market myself as a writer, my podcast, my book, myself, because I am myself a brand, that's all very intimidating. So we talk about brand and that's a big byword in marketing of course, but you have a different take on how to connect with the consumers. So can you can explain a little bit more about your philosophy on the you-centric marketing and how to market effectively?
Shahla: Yes, absolutely. You know, I think it really does boil down to this notion of we are in this space where yes, of course the brand is important, the vibe that you give off, the essence of your brand, your voice, all of those things are important. So sometimes when I talk about you-centric marketing, I get this look like you're basically saying my brand is invaluable. And that's actually the exact opposite of what I'm saying. I really want to emphasize, of course the brand is a valuable asset. You put all of this time and effort and energy into your brand, but at the end of the day, if it doesn't resonate with the customer and if it doesn't feel like it's personal to them or personally aligning with their goals and aspirations and their motivations, then it's just more brand speak. Yeah, and so the concept is we're nuanced, right? As customers, we're nuanced, we're multifaceted. There are many things that are influencing our time, our focus, our energy.
Shahla: And if brands really want to be effective, they need to really step back and understand your customer and say, how can I connect personally in a way with this customer where they say, huh, this brand gets me. This is what I need. And so the notion of you-centric marketing is exactly that, right? It's about you, the customer, what matters to you, the customer. And if me as a brand can connect with you in a way that feels very unique to you and your needs, then you're going to be loyal to me and then ultimately that brand is going to pay for itself because the brand is going to be the thing that drives the conversion. But if you're not connecting with me personally in a way that I actually care about, I'm never going to get to the point of the conversion because you're not speaking to me.
Mindy: That's interesting and so true because again, going back to the milk, we are attracted to things that speak to who we are as a person. So I am a farmer's daughter. I live in the country and from the Midwest. When I'm looking at the milk, I'm not necessarily going to look for the cheapest. I'm probably going to look for something organic. I'm going to look for something that has no probiotics. Let's take it to eggs. I'm probably going to look for cage free eggs and things like that just because of my own personality and the things that I feel and my own behaviors. When you're talking about this you-centric marketing, are you talking about kind of finding that person, that Midwestern farmer's daughter and saying, I'm the milk for you?
Shahla: That's a perfect example because really, you know, at the end of the day there's all these things like you just referenced, right? Your background factors in you, what you value, I value. You value organic, you value cage-free, what you value, your attitudes towards them. Maybe it's also I want to feel good about the purchase that I'm making. Maybe it's also, Oh, this one gives back percentage of their proceeds to this charity. These are all the drivers, right, of why you make the purchasing decisions that you make and none of them are, well, I sure do like the labels of the milk right now. I mean, maybe it's that, but it's really about why does this matter to me? Why am I seeking out this product. And it's data that we have that we understand or that we can get through zero party data, but it's also just really paying attention to this customer and saying, I know you've got these things that you value and these attitudes and these influences.
Shahla: They could even be generational influences. Social influences. We know you have these other pieces, so how do I break the noise and say, you know what? We understand you and we're the milk for you because we know what you're looking for. We know what you value. And it's a harder marketing piece, right? It's not easy to necessarily do it that way, but at the end of the day if you feel like that, if you feel like this milk is speaking to your needs, what matters to you? You're going to buy that milk all the time. It's how do I now move away from the sort of features and benefits that brands get stuck into all the time and really instead say, let's really understand the customer and what's driving the customer to make this purchase.
Mindy: Coming up. How authors can translate you-centric marketing into their approach.
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Mindy: Writers have to handle a double-edged sword in that we generally work in isolation. We're not all social butterflies. Some of us are better at it than others. Social media particularly and marketing that goes along with it is a must for anyone who's looking to expand their reader base or even make a splash at all. So do you have any tips specifically for writers about how to use social media or which platforms are the most writer friendly or any kind of tips about how to turn an online audience into page turning readers.
Shahla: I think the biggest benefit for writers, right is that you're a writer. Everything in this day and age is about the content that you put out. And that's also what makes people resonate with your message. For writers, even though oftentimes as you said, maybe they're not front and center, they don't want to be out in front of everybody. The truth of the matter is is that fact that they're a writer is such a huge asset. So doing things like maybe using video to talk about the inspiration behind your book or a little deeper dive on what you're trying to articulate with this character and the development. Or maybe it's just how you got motivated to write a book. But I think utilizing those little behind the scenes, personal aspects of yourself through video in particular, because video is just naturally engaging, but also because you can do it 14 times in your own room.
Shahla: But I think those type of elements of like telling those little pieces of your story, share them with video, put them out on Facebook. I mean Facebook is probably your best friend just because of the reach, if nothing else and the brand awareness, that's what consumers today want, right? They want to feel like they're connected with you. It's back to the whole notion of this you-centric marketing element. Is if I feel that I know a little bit about you as an author and I feel like I understand, I'm a little bit of the behind the scene, a little bit of the real world, the real life. I'm going to see how that applies to my life. Oh, I feel that way too. I love the fact that this author was maybe a little nervous to get out and talk about their book or I love that they're telling me a little bit more about the character that I would not get in the pages of the book. So authenticity and really showcasing who you are in a very approachable way and then taking those pieces and you know obviously doing it so that it's not lengthy and you're not doing, you know, a dissertation, you're picking out these snippets that are the most interesting and then you're pushing it across a platform like Facebook. But I think those are the pieces that authors can really utilize to their benefit is getting out there, showing who they are and telling those pieces of the story that the reader wouldn't otherwise know.
Mindy: And it's interesting too, you're talking about connecting as writers. We have the unique position where we don't have just a 20 second advertisement we have, if we can get them to pick it up, a book to connect to our readers with. That could be taking up four to six hours of their time, can take up two to three days, could take a week if we can get them to pick up that book. Everything that's in the book is in itself a piece of marketing. We're selling who we are, we're selling that story. We're selling our brand in a way, especially if you write genre and you stick in one. I think it's an interesting idea. The book itself then is just you forming a greater, deeper, more intricate relationship with the consumer, right?
Shahla: Right. We're in this day and age of technology everywhere, but at the end of the day, I think that technology actually lends itself to more of a notion of how do I really connect with somebody? I want to be emotionally connected to somebody. I want to feel like they matter to me and that I've mattered to them and that's why the power of social media to make those connections and to share those insights and then utilize that book and all of those different pieces, right, and repurpose it and pull out snippets and say, Hey, here's a little tip that you might not have known or this was my inspiration or those types of things are the things that people really, they want that. If they're going to invest in your book, they want to know who you are and what were the driving elements because that just creates more of a direct relationship between you and the reader.
Mindy: Talking again about the aspects of the writer themselves, this individual, all of us have different hats that we put on or at least I do. So it's like the writer self is different from who I am as a person. When I put myself out socially in front of people, you're automatically an entertainer of sorts and so you're having to kind of adapt to that. Some writers do that, some people don't. Some are more socially capable than others. So if you're not one that is good at that physical presence, the physicality of an entertainer, like you're saying, you have that ability to use video, something that you can shoot it again and again until you're happy with it. A lot of people aren't even, aren't comfortable being on camera. So like what are other elements? What are other ways to have an impact if you are more dedicated to that written word rather than the spoken?
Shahla: It's a quandary a little bit. Where we are and the space and time is that's sort of a really important piece to the promotion and to be a successful marketer is to sort of get comfortable with being uncomfortable. But I think if you really are just absolutely reluctant and you just feel like you're just going to be ineffective at it, I think there's so many things that you can do with memes. Where maybe you're pulling out a snippet from the book or maybe you're giving a little, here's the insider's view of this book and here's the exclusive look gives you this notion that you're getting some inside skinny on this book. So I think you can do things with things like memes or you can do some really interesting photography or maybe you want to showcase one of your readers, right?
Shahla: I mean user generated content is so powerful, right? Because it's real. Maybe it's, Hey, I don't really want to put myself out there, but I'd love to get 10 readers that would share with me their insights and I'd like to promote you out on my social media pages. I'd like you to share with me your takeaway. Maybe you interview the consumer of your book. I mean there's a lot of different ways to sort of showcase different angles through somebody else, but I think at the end of the day, there is also that need to really step into your greatness. If I'm going to go for this, I'm going to go for it. I'm going to do whatever it takes to get my book out there because I know I've got something of value to share and that might mean that I've got to push myself and grow and stretch in ways that I don't want to, but ultimately it's going to benefit me.
Mindy: I like what you're saying too, about user generated content because it's true, especially on Instagram for example, there's a whole culture of bookstagrammars out there, who use your book, tag you in it. When you repost it, they're so flattered and they're so excited that you re-posted their content and at the same time it's like, you're doing me a favor. You just gave me something. Free content. Right?
Shahla: Right. And it's a win win, I think that the notion, just as you're saying the notion of we're tapping into this influencer marketing aspects of it, especially through things like Instagram. Or you can find these people, you can connect with these people. You know, you can say, I'd love it if you did something on my book and I'd love to share it out. It's that ultimate partnership that you can create with some people who've already got a little bit of a platform and they don't have one, a huge platform, right? They can be a micro-influencer, but it still gives you that credibility. It still gives you that credence. It gives you that promotion. You can really maximize that because again, people gravitate towards influencers because they feel a personal connection to the influencer and that's why they're so impactful because they're like, well, she's making this recommendation on this book and I just love her and she's amazing and anything she says I'm in. That's exactly why influencer marketing is so powerful and I think it's tremendous tool for writers to utilize to really move the needle on their marketing efforts.
Mindy: And that's a great tip for those that are unsure about how to create their own content, especially getting started watching what other people are doing, especially if they're using your material. You're absolutely right that it's a win win.
Shahla: For sure. That's also how you set up a better partnership too. The notion of how do I help you and you help me and we do this sort of together and it's not just this transactional relationship. It's a true partnership and I think influencers love that because they're so often approached by this notion of like, well, we'll pay you this much and you do this and, and then we just want you to play along with 40 others instead of, I really value you and I really think that you've got an incredible audience and I'd love to share this amazing book with your incredible audience and figure out how can we make this beneficial for both of us. And I think influencers would fall all over with that approach, they'd be thrilled with it.
Mindy: Another issue that comes, I think for pretty much any artist at this point is the amount of free and streaming content that's out there. There's so much. How does a writer specifically convince a consumer that what they're offering is worth paying money for?
Shahla: You know, I think about this a lot. I pay for the New York Times and it's because I value the news and the detailed analysis that I get from the New York Times. At the same time, I don't have a subscription to the Denver Post because I don't value it. Back to that overarching thought process. Would it be valuable to your customer, to your target audience when they see that there's something unique and interesting and engaging with this content, then they're going to be willing pay for it. I think where the struggle really comes in is when it's a lot of the sort of, me too! I've got the same general concept or the, you know, here's another book that's part of the 500 other books you've ever read. Then that does become a struggle. It doesn't feel that valuable. It feels like just one of many, but the more that you can really highlight that value and what you're telling and your story and what you're bringing to the table and why it is important, then I think the paid piece kind of goes out the window because the customer feels like they're really getting something that's unique and interesting.
Mindy: That's that bridge that you have to build with them that just begins with trust and then taking interest in you and moving forward from there.
Shahla: Exactly. And it's a slower process and we sometimes want to take. When you build that trust and that partnership with your, with your reader base, it's not fast. Proving that value again and again and again and showing that you're worthy of their attention. And I think that piece is something that we tend to live in this society because we, everything is so fast, right? I can jump on Amazon and I can get my product shipped to me immediately that we think that everything is like that. The marketing takes time. It takes, you know, sticktuitiveness it takes knowing that it may take a while before you get the eyeballs, but you're going to get the eyeballs. If you stay after it and you stay committed to it and don't think of it as, well, I'm just going to do this for a little while and then I'm going to stop. No, it's constantly building that brand and reinforce it back and reconnecting, showing that you're worthy of their time and attention.
Mindy: It's a huge part of your day. I mean, every day you have to be doing something that is part of marketing and a lot of writers don't like to hear that, but it's true.
Shahla: I know, I know. Well, and I think that there's this thought process. I had a friend one time that said to me that she wanted to write a book, but she wanted to just give it to a publisher and let them do all the heavy lifting. Certainly there are those books that do get tons of publisher promotion, but they're much more few and far between and even then, at some point they're going to come back and be like, okay, we've pushed this out. Now you maintain it, right? Now you keep it going,.
Mindy: Yes, you will have to be a marketer at one point. So why don't you let our listeners know where they can find your book?
Shahla: So we've got it available. It's on Amazon. What's Working Now: YOU-centric Marketing. It's also on our website. Think media consult.com and we are doing a 25% off. We have a free ebook on influencer marketing that is also available on our website and ThinkMediaConsult.com